Navy/Air Force Aero Club's

[mh53eflyguy]

Where have all the Aero Clubs gone?

Since 9/11, 7 Navy and Air Force Aero Clubs have closed there doors. Some of them were experiencing financial issue prior to 9/11.

For those who do not know, Langley AFB in Hampton, VA has a flying club. They have four aircraft, a Piper Arrow, Two Cessna 172R (W/GPS, Autopilot, full IFR panel) and a Cessna 172N. The birds are $97 an hour wet (Piper and C-172R's) and $82 wet for the C-172N. CFI's are $25 an hour

The Langley Aero club is in perril. They need more members to keep our heads above water. The club is under review for closure, however, the aircraft still need to fly. The Dues are $25 a month, one Safety meeting is held once a month that is manditory, however, you can watch a recorded version at a later time. There is a one time $35 initiation fee.
They do have a PCATD Simulator and they have the Lazer Grade knowledge test facility. Sounds like a decent facility.

It's a good little club, If you would like more information, please visit there web page (www.langleyaeroclub.org) or call them at 757-766-1347.

I fly out of there a lot, but i see very little mentioned of them anywhere. There is nothing in the MWR flyers about it, and I think this might be part of the trouble. Norfolk lost it's flying club in 2000 due to similar circumstances, and the next closest military flying club is Annapolis, MD, which is almost 4 hours away.

If you are looking to take your friends or family up, or even go TAD somewhere, This is a great resourse.

Aero Clubs are going away at an alarming rate, there have been numerous clubs closing, they are a heck of a lot cheaper than most Part 141 or Part 61 flight schools out there, and once they are gone, they are gone! Quantico's just closed there doors recently, and I hear that there are a few others in Langley's perdicament.

If you live in the area, check out the Langley Aero Club while you still can. If you live near one, check it out and support it. The MWR is dropping programs left and right, and they are starting with the Flight Clubs. Its not an attack on the MWR, the fact is that the flow of money has decreased.

Anyway, i enjoy the flying clubs, and I think if they were advertised somewhat more frequently, that they would have a more successful run with regards to their operations.

 

[phrogpilot73]

...the next closest military flying club is Annapolis, MD, which is almost 4 hours away.

No military flying club in Annapolis, MD. There used to be the USNA Flying Club, but it's been disbanded. Their website only has info on IFS, ASTB dates and what not.

The closest one to Langley is the Pax River Navy Flying Club. Good point though, it is about 3 1/2-ish hours away. Next one closest (near and dear to my heart) is the Fort Meade Flying Activity. Rates are about the same, as are the requirements for safety (they've started putting the recorded safety briefs on Google videos). I've flown a couple of times with them and am trying to find the time to do it more regularly (I blame it on all my free time being occupied by Masters classes). I don't think FMFA is going to shut down any time soon, because they're not an MWR activity. They're a CWF activity. What's CWF? It's a 3-letter agency's MWR equivalent. Lots of civilians fly with them, and the requirements to join are that you are active duty, civilian employee of 3-letter agency, or dependent. They're actually doing pretty well from what I see.

If you live near one, check it out and support it. The MWR is dropping programs left and right, and they are starting with the Flight Clubs. Its not an attack on the MWR, the fact is that the flow of money has decreased.

Agree wholeheartedly - everything that is MWR will go away if it's not utilized, there's only so much money available, and programs that are utilized are the ones that stick around.

Support your local flying club!

Rep for the thread...

 

[mh53eflyguy]

No military flying club in Annapolis, MD. There used to be the USNA Flying Club, but it's been disbanded. Their website only has info on IFS, ASTB dates and what not.

Doesn't Lee Airport (KANP) http://www.nafcflying.org/ have a Navy Flying Club? I forgot Pax River was close by as well....Even still, a 6 hour commute (round trip from the Hampton Roads area) for a 1-2 hour flight seems like a bigger waste of time and money than it is worth, but the reality is, this will be a reality shortly for the Langley Aero Club within a few months.... Part 141 schools are hard to come by, especially ones that do not overcharge (Horizon Aviation at KCPK for example, they charge was too much for a CFI and a C-172. Good luck getting off the deck for an hour for under $200. You can get almost two hours in with that money at Langley!)

At any rate, FLY!!!!

 

[phrogpilot73]

Doesn't Lee Airport (KANP) http://www.nafcflying.org/ have a Navy Flying Club?

That they do, but I'm pretty sure it's not affiliated with the military or the Naval Academy for a couple of reasons. There used to be a Naval Academy Flying Club which was an MWR activity. Disbanded due to lack of funding. The other reason I'm pretty sure it's not affiliated with the military is because you can join if you're "active duty/retired/separated military." Pretty sure that if I wasn't married to someone on active duty in the Navy that my MWR benefits would have ceased to exist. I'll have to check out their pricing. Tipton (where FMFA is located) is closer to me so I'll probably stay there...

 

[HH-60H]

Ok, I'll throw this into the pot. It's another factor in the "How much does GA cost?/What flight club or school should I pick?" category.

I fly out of BWI, and it, like Lee and Tipton, are in class 'B' airspace. Not only is it in class 'B' it's also with the DC ADIZ. So, there is a good amount of cruise time spent in and out of the B and ADIZ where I am wasting my money. I would say about 20 min total. Not a lot, but at $96 for the plane and $45 for the CFI, that comes to an extra $47 for every flight.

Ok, so is that extra $47 (.3 hr) worth it? For me, not really.... I don't need the extra time cruising at altitude and working the radios. Granted my first couple flights back in the saddle it was helpful, but now not so much. I need to practicing lazy 8's, chandelles, the landing pattern, etc. Sure every little bit of practice is helpful, but not necessarily at $47 for 20 mins.

All that being said, it is useful for a guy getting his private license, so it's not so much of a consideration for him.

Of course, this begs the question, why do I do it? Well, I found a great instructor, who is a retired Navy helo pilot / T-34 IP, so in this particular case I was willing to pay the extra amount. I was particularly concerned about transitioning back to FW after so much RW, so it was great to find someone who knew what I was going through. Also great is that he just finished up his transition from Navy to GA flying and could help point out all of those nuances.

The point I am trying to make is that not only are the published rates an important factor to consider when choosing a flying club or school, but there are other factors to keep in mind. Is it located in an ADIZ or Class 'B'? Who can you get as an instructor? etc, etc.

 

[invertedflyer]

If any of you are in SOCAL there is the March ARB Aero Club. If you don't mind flying aircraft that say USAF on them, its actually a heck of a lot cheaper than a civilian FBO. The T-41As (C-172) are $79/hour wet, T-41C (C-172 w/210 hp engine) $88/hour wet, and T-34A/B $110 and $115/ hour respectively. Its probably the only place you can fly a T-34 for these prices. There is a one time fee of $45 to join, then its $25/month and ofcourse a mandatory safety meeting. If you're within an hours drive its definitely worth it, usually the base is pretty quiet and it will keep you current on military procedures. If Steerman posts up I know that he used to fly there. PM me if you need more info.

We are also hurting for funding, so the more people that join the better. The Aero club Manager is a prior Navy pilot as well, good guy.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

Ok, I'll throw this into the pot. It's another factor in the "How much does GA cost?/What flight club or school should I pick?" category.

I fly out of BWI, and it, like Lee and Tipton, are in class 'B' airspace. Not only is it in class 'B' it's also with the DC ADIZ. So, there is a good amount of cruise time spent in and out of the B and ADIZ where I am wasting my money. I would say about 20 min total. Not a lot, but at $96 for the plane and $45 for the CFI, that comes to an extra $47 for every flight.

Ok, so is that extra $47 (.3 hr) worth it? For me, not really.... I don't need the extra time cruising at altitude and working the radios. Granted my first couple flights back in the saddle it was helpful, but now not so much. I need to practicing lazy 8's, chandelles, the landing pattern, etc. Sure every little bit of practice is helpful, but not necessarily at $47 for 20 mins.

All that being said, it is useful for a guy getting his private license, so it's not so much of a consideration for him.

Of course, this begs the question, why do I do it? Well, I found a great instructor, who is a retired Navy helo pilot / T-34 IP, so in this particular case I was willing to pay the extra amount. I was particularly concerned about transitioning back to FW after so much RW, so it was great to find someone who knew what I was going through. Also great is that he just finished up his transition from Navy to GA flying and could help point out all of those nuances.

The point I am trying to make is that not only are the published rates an important factor to consider when choosing a flying club or school, but there are other factors to keep in mind. Is it located in an ADIZ or Class 'B'? Who can you get as an instructor? etc, etc.

When I was flying out of Tipton, it wasn't Class B, but it was inside the ADIZ. I found that starting out, the travel to and from the bay was nice.

 

[mules83]

It's a shame to hear that the Norfolk flying club went under. I had a lot of good times flying their t-34's with my dad back in the 90's. We flew out of langley too. I'll be sure to join the langley club if I go to Oceana.

 

[HH-60H]

When I was flying out of Tipton, it wasn't Class B, but it was inside the ADIZ. I found that starting out, the travel to and from the bay was nice.

Oops, my bad it is just under the Class B. The ADIZ stuff still holds true, which IMO is the more difficult to deal with.

 

[insanebikerboy]

I wonder if these flying clubs are gonna try and snap up a few T-34C if/when the T-6 transition happens? I would imagine that would positively influence membership to some extent.

 

[HH-60H]

I wonder if these flying clubs are gonna try and snap up a few T-34C if/when the T-6 transition happens? I would imagine that would positively influence membership to some extent.

I am only guessing, but I would guess no. AFAIK the T-34's that used to be "out there" were T-34B's, which if I recall is a piston engine. Isn't the T-34C a turbo-prop?

IMO that gives it two strikes against it for use in an aero club. First, it would require more/different/more expensive maintenance than what a regular aero club could handle. Second, it would be a higher performance aircraft than a Cessna or Katana, which is probably too much to handle for the pilots and more importantly the insurance of an aero club.

Again those are my guesses.

 

[insanebikerboy]

I am only guessing, but I would guess no. AFAIK the T-34's that used to be "out there" were T-34B's, which if I recall is a piston engine. Isn't the T-34C a turbo-prop?

IMO that gives it two strikes against it for use in an aero club. First, it would require more/different/more expensive maintenance than what a regular aero club could handle. Second, it would be a higher performance aircraft than a Cessna or Katana, which is probably too much to handle for the pilots and more importantly the insurance of an aero club.

Again those are my guesses.

Probably a good guess, didn't consider insurance costs for operating an aerobatic turbo-prop. Guess I'll just have to win the lottery and buy one of my own.

 

[mh53eflyguy]

Another factor with the T-34's (Mainly the A's and B's) are the AD's for the wing spar, they were grounded for quite a while until the AD's were complied with. I'd imagine that the Raytheon would want to keep performing the maintenance on these bad boys as they are contracted, but I don't foresee a flying club hiring a Raytheon Contractor to keep a bird in the air, they are having funding issues as is.

However, that being said, It would be great to cruise around in a T-34C!!!!! I'd pay a little more to get a better cross country aircraft, especially one with that much "class"!

 

[Stearmann4]

Its probably the only place you can fly a T-34 for these prices. If Stearmann4 posts up I know that he used to fly there. PM me if you need more info

March runs the tightest ship (sort of) that I've seen in a military or civilian club. It's slightly more work, but what you get in return are some nice aircraft to fly. To my knowledge, it's the only place in the country where you can rent a nicely restored T-34. Anyone whos' flown Navy Flying Club 34s' will be shocked at their immaculate condition.

 

[ChunksJR]

However, that being said, It would be great to cruise around in a T-34C!!!!! I'd pay a little more to get a better cross country aircraft, especially one with that much "class"!

Damn sometimes I hate being married...even being DINKS, I'd have problems affording a Turboprop.

~D