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GOUGE Military Competency Route to CFI/CFII - advice

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
So one of the career waters I want to test is to get my CFI/CFII and see if that could lead to a decent post corporate career. But the short term goal is to get Airplane Single and MEL CFI/CFII.

Given that I have an ATP Helo and Commercial Single and Multi Engine Land and Instrument Airplane, the shortest path seem to be

1) Per Part 61.73, take Mil Comp CFI knowledge test and have FAA issue me a CFI-Rotorcraft Helicopter - which based on Mil experience I am entitled to.

Question - is there a chance of getting CFII out of it too?

2) Do add-on for CFI Airplane SEL/MEL

My question for the forums - how hard/difficult is this route? I was a pretty awesome instructor in the Training Command back in the day - so I am confident in my instructional skills. The question is how hard are the beucratic and practical instruction hurdles. I have not flown anything in over 10 years - but I have always been a naturally gifted stick and rudder guy.

What kind of hours of practical instruction and experience general aviation wise should I plan on?

Advice on best route - take a few weeks of work and do immersion or work with local flying club and their CFI. GE has a very healthy flying club here in the Queen city. But its $2K to join and $100 per month just to be a member.

Thanks guys.
 

RobLyman

- hawk Pilot
pilot
None
I had my CFI/CFII airplane single engine. I got it by using my VA benefits. My time as an instructor at HSL-40/41 got me the CFI/CFII rotorcraft helicopter add on without any written test. The guy who went with me to see the FAA designee got his CFI/CFII helicopter as an Army IP/IE and the written test.

I had about 8 years out of the cockpit when I went for my CFI at the NAS Jax flying club. You may have to hit the books hard to get back in the groove, but the flying stuff was easy. You will have to learn the commercial pilot maneuvers and how to instruct them for your CFI check ride. I did my training after work and on weekends. It took about 30 hrs for CFI, 30 for CFII and 25 for the multiengine add on and MEI. I had no multiengine time prior to starting my MEI. I would guess you could cut down the CFI and CFII time by 20-30% if you went at it all at once and/or if you had no prolonged time out of the cockpit. The MEI would be much less also seeing as you already have your multi rating.
 

Purdue

Chicks Dig Rotors...
pilot
Take the MilComp exam and you'll get quals for everything you have a letter in your NATOPS jacket for. Depending on the FSDO, most of them don't know what our quals are so they just look for keywords. Or you cn show them keywords...

ie: "Here's my signed qualification letter as a NVG INSTRUCTOR PILOT..." and the FSDO says: "Ok, so you were an instructor. You now have your instructor qual in commercial helicopters".

I heard rumors of people bringing in a Instrument Check-pilot letter they signed themselves... but I did not do that, and anyway my FSDO just saw I was an instrument rated pilot with an instructor qual and gave my CFII.

Since I did not go to Primary as an instructor, I am only qual'd as a Rotary CFI/CFII. The FSDO asked (and my local flightschool confirmed) it's a simple matter of getting an instructor to endorse you for a FAA checkride, and taking said checkride... and you can easily get the SEL addon for CFII if you so desire. The school gave me a quote of "a few hundred dollars plus the checkride fee" and said she just wanted to see me teach a few hours of Ground School to her PrivatePilot studs and then demonstrate I could do the maneuvers for her and she'd endorse me. I didn;t end up doing it because I went the Envoy route to the airlines instead.

My MultiEngine Commercial Addon was about $7000 funded by the GI bill last month (but part of that cost was that I also needed the minimum 25 hours for ATP, so I drug my feet a little.) I'm not sure about the MEI costs.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
It's all about which FSDO you go to and how smooth a talker you are. Ironically, despite standards being in the title, FSDOs aren't very standardized, on many fronts. As a VT IP, I took my Air Force form 8 (checkride) paperwork along with the training letter from PIT (FITU), and on a whim I brought my NATOPS jacket and showed him my HAC letter which showed my resignation as a SAR/NVD instructor, I believe, and when he came back with the temp, he'd written me up for CFI/CFII/CFI-H/CFII-H.

YMMV...

EDIT: my multi-comm was about 2k and 9.6 hours in the logbook after checkride.

My ATP on the other hand.... 50 hours of flying around (for unrestricted) plus MEI/ATP checkride fees... around 12k.
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
My ATP on the other hand.... 50 hours of flying around (for unrestricted) plus MEI/ATP checkride fees... around 12k.
We get our ATP at our annual sims... For free. Do they not do that for you C-130 guys, or did you get it before going VR?
 

DanMa1156

Land of the rising sun. Literally. There's no DST!
pilot
Contributor
It's all about which FSDO you go to and how smooth a talker you are. Ironically, despite standards being in the title, FSDOs aren't very standardized, on many fronts. As a VT IP, I took my Air Force form 8 (checkride) paperwork along with the training letter from PIT (FITU), and on a whim I brought my NATOPS jacket and showed him my HAC letter which showed my resignation as a SAR/NVD instructor, I believe, and when he came back with the temp, he'd written me up for CFI/CFII/CFI-H/CFII-H.

YMMV...

EDIT: my multi-comm was about 2k and 9.6 hours in the logbook after checkride.

My ATP on the other hand.... 50 hours of flying around (for unrestricted) plus MEI/ATP checkride fees... around 12k.
We get our ATP at our annual sims... For free. Do they not do that for you C-130 guys, or did you get it before going VR?
And add on - do you think having the MEI and ATP helped you get VR? I'm just beginning to explore the options and poking around at people who have made the RW to VR transition.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
My contacts at FAA have told me that officially your elgibility does not expire - wondering what will happen after I pass written exam anmd show up with 20 year old letters of Naval Air Training Command IP designation and HT IP designation, and HT Stan pilot and Special Instrument - the idea being to get Helo CFI/CFII based on that.

Plan to do local flight school for SEL CFI/CFII and MEI this summer
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
And add on - do you think having the MEI and ATP helped you get VR? I'm just beginning to explore the options and poking around at people who have made the RW to VR transition.
No. LOR's and a solid record are going to be the biggest selling points. Of all of the ex-helicopter guys I know in VR, I think BACONATOR is the only one that had any multi time other than a SELRES friend. I had 3.6 hours in a Piper Seneca before the 737, and it was a waste of time/money. I don't think there is enough that correlates between flying a light piston twin to make it worth it. If you are currently flying a fixed wing aircraft (VT's) you will go straight to 737 or C-130 sims in Fort Worth. All other helo dudes will go to Corpus for 25 hours in a C-12 transition course before going for your type rating.
 

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
We get our ATP at our annual sims... For free. Do they not do that for you C-130 guys, or did you get it before going VR?
I did it while I was in T-6s and knew the regs were changing. My plan was to go regionals and get out right up until I got picked up FTS awhile I was sitting in TGPS class months from separation.

And add on - do you think having the MEI and ATP helped you get VR? I'm just beginning to explore the options and poking around at people who have made the RW to VR transition.
It's all speculation at best, but I do think it helps. This last board picked a lot of helo only dudes, but the rumor mill is they are giving VR and specifically C-40s to helo dudes because they think they are likely to stay beyond one tour to build hours (they don't know one tour will be good enough in today's job market even for a helo guy). But if it came down to me and another dude, I think the multi ATP and MEI would favor me. I also had a masters degree when I applied done on my shore tour. If you want the ratings, get them. If you're doing it solely for VR, don't bother until getting rejected a couple times. Feel free to pm me about FTS/BR.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
rumor mill is they are giving VR and specifically C-40s to helo dudes because they think they are likely to stay beyond one tour to build hours (they don't know one tour will be good enough in today's job market even for a helo guy)
I seriously doubt that. Given who the CM was that just left, he'd be very aware of what the job market is becoming. He's said outright that the change to 3 year contracts for VR stabilized the community. It's interesting when you see the actual numbers up through 2016. While there was a huge spike of people leaving VR, once the 3 year contract was put in place, the numbers have stabilized for post-DH take rates. There was only two years (I believe) of data, so the big question is what 2017 will show, but so far, the community isn't hurting as much as it was.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Is there no longer a free testing center in Jax? I thought there was one over at the Guard base at JAX, but Sheppard Air's list (from the FAA) doesn't have anything in the area.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
Just took the Mil Comp Instructor exam- 94%! Sheppard gouge/test prep is spot on. I stressed over the W&B problems and there was a wopping ONE on my exam - and I already had answer memorized. But I can do CG = M / W all day now like a boss!

Called FSDO and they will issue CFI and CFII for Rotorcraft - Helo based on my HT experience. Working on the 8710-1 form.

Airplane SEL CFI/CFII add on is a check ride only - flying commercial PTS manuevers from the left seat. Will do that between the holidays.

I have access to a Cessna 182T and a Cessna 206 - anyone know if the Airplane add on requires a retractable gear aircraft for the practical test/check ride?

Chuck
 
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Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Just took the Mil Comp Instructor exam- 94%! Sheppard gouge/test prep is spot on. I stressed over the W&B problems and there was a wopping ONE on my exam - and I already had answer memorized. But I can do CG = M / W all day now like a boss!
Thanks for the gouge on that. I was studying today again, although between emails and random phone calls, I seem to only make it through 50 questions at a time. I was wondering how many W&B questions were "normal" given the relatively large number of them in the test bank.

As for a Complex requirement for a CFI/I...I'd doubt it since there's plenty of people who've done their time in 150s. Then again, I don't have to care about such things, since I have dual IP designations in my NATOPS.
 

FrankTheTank

Professional Pot Stirrer
pilot
Do any of y'all know the time limitations associated with Miltary Competency? I haven't instructed since 2004 (Meridian) and thought I would never use being a CFI but now my kids have shown interest in flying.
 

ChuckMK23

Instructor, Flight.
pilot
Do any of y'all know the time limitations associated with Miltary Competency? I haven't instructed since 2004 (Meridian) and thought I would never use being a CFI but now my kids have shown interest in flying.
Forever. Really. I left the Training Command in 1995.
 
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