Mental Health/NAMI/Med Boards…. for a friend.

[gatechfan28]

Off the record, for a friend, of course. I’m trying to get some information regarding processes for being DQ’d while on flight status (Tactical Jets).

Long story short, there’s a high probability that “my friend” has been diagnosed with “Major Depressive Disorder, Recurrent, Severe” as well as anxiety and PTSD and has been suggested to get placed on medication from this outside doc.

Unfortunately, this is obviously a hard downer, and as far as I can tell, and waivers aren’t recommended after treatment for multiple episodes.

My questions for “my friend” are:

1. What is the process once DQ’d after winging with about half your commitment left? Are you sent through a FNAEB? Do they take your wings or just ground you?

2. If grounded, what does the Navy do with you? Are you punished and sent to a ship for 4 years or do they send you to Diego Garcia to continue your depression but on an island? Or do they medically discharge?

3. If medical discharge, what’s the process there?

Thanks, for the “academic” help, “for my friend.” I’m sure this question has been asked, but I can’t seem to find much for current aviators in a situation where the NAMI waiver guide says it’s not allowable.

 

[insanebikerboy]

It’s a medical condition, they won’t take your wings. You just won’t fly anymore. No different than any other medical DQ.

With something like severe depression, anxiety, and PTSD to the degree that you can’t fly, expect a med review board to determine your suitability for continued service.

Every situation is different but for comparison, I had an AM1 get med boarded for severe depression and he was medically retired (not just discharged).

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

(My perspective is from the non 13XX side)

I can imagine there are a variety of factors inside "your friend's" control and out which will impact the future of his naval + overall navy career.

Have they (aka "your friend") started to have discussions with their chain of command? Maybe detailer?

 

[gatechfan28]

(My perspective is from the non 13XX side)

I can imagine there are a variety of factors inside "your friend's" control and out which will impact the future of his naval + overall navy career.

Have they (aka "your friend") started to have discussions with their chain of command? Maybe detailer?

Yeah, CoC is aware and already Med down pending psych review. Went Med down a few weeks ago, but the Navy has taken several weeks to see a Navy Psych officer. Out in town the diagnosis was received, so it seems relatively certain the Navy will see the same. Unfortunately, with all the time between this appointment and the navy’s appointment, there’s just too much time to think.

 

[Swanee]

That's the trouble with mental health in military aviation- we treat all of it as a career ender. Sometimes the best in the life for an aviator is what happens in the cockpit, in the air. Yet with any chink in the mental health armor we take that away, most likely permanently.

So rather than have a comprehensive physical and mental health program designed to keep aviators flying, we have a weed out program that makes good folks wait until they can't take anymore and cry uncle- many times only to have the best thing in their life taken from them at the same time.


It's absolutely wrong, and we've failed our own because of it. A mental health diagnosis shouldn't be treated as leprosy, where we send folks to an island and forget about them, with no plan to bring them back- yet that's what we do.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Military Onesource is a fantastic resource, available to all AD, reservists, and veterans. They’ll set up completely free and confidential counseling with professional counselors. I used it myself, when I was going through a rough patch a few years ago. The hardest part was picking up the phone and admitting I needed help.

Non-medical, Confidential Counseling | Military OneSource

Military OneSource offers free, confidential non-medical counseling to military service members and their family members for a variety of issues.

www.militaryonesource.mil

Once something becomes a formal medical diagnosis, options become a lot more limited, as @Swanee has rightly pointed out.

Encouraging folks to get a little help early on can be part of the solution.

 

[Brett327]

A mental health diagnosis shouldn't be treated as leprosy

But should it be treated as a medically disqualifying condition? Are you really being objective on this subject, or just lamenting that people with conditions that place their reliability in the air in question no longer get to do fun stuff?

 

[number9]

A slight tangent but an important one: does your friend agree with the diagnosis? When I applied for the DCO program, I found out that (unbeknownst to me!) I had a very similar diagnosis of a very serious condition. I didn't agree with it, and managed to get the diagnosis "changed" for lack of a better term.

I'm not trying to minimize anything your friend is going through, but I would recommend he/she check the symptoms (e.g. in a copy of the DSM V) to make sure he/she agrees with what is written there.

In particular, this is what the DSM V says defines a severe case:

Specify current severity:
Severity is based on the number of criterion symptoms, the severity of those symptoms, and the degree of functional disability.

Mild: Few, if any, symptoms in excess of those required to make the diagnosis are present, the intensity of the symptoms is distressing but manageable, and the sytoms result in minor impairment in social or occupational functioning.
Moderate: The number of symptoms, intensity of symptoms, and/or functional impairment are between those specified for “mild” and “severe.”

Severe: The number of symptoms is substantially in excess of that required to make the diagnosis, the intensity of the symptoms is seriously distressing and unmanageable, and the symptoms markedly interfere with social and occupational functioning.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

This is something your friend may want to ask the doc or others medical professionals as your friend gets further in the process, but the does the diagnoses and/or meds prevent the ability to deploy world wide? I worked with a few officers who had medical conditions where that was the case and it limited the designators they could go into.

 

[number9]

This is something your friend may want to ask the doc or others medical professionals as your friend gets further in the process, but the does the diagnoses and/or meds prevent the ability to deploy world wide? I worked with a few officers who had medical conditions where that was the case and it limited the designators they could go into.

I can't find the Navy medical reference manual right now, but major depressive disorder-recurrent-severe is a DQ if you're trying to enlist/commission. You would know better than I would the type of impact that has (or doesn't have) on someone already in the Navy.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I can't find the Navy medical reference manual right now, but major depressive disorder-recurrent-severe is a DQ if you're trying to enlist/commission. You would know better than I would the type of impact that has (or doesn't have) on someone already in the Navy.

That is why I said it would be good to ask the doc on the status so that could be part of the conversation with those figuring out what designators would be in play. The effect a diagnosis like this will have while one is in the USN will also be affected by what job a person has in the USN.

In the end the important thing is the person gets the help they need to be ok.

 

[Bad_Karma_1310]

But should it be treated as a medically disqualifying condition? Are you really being objective on this subject, or just lamenting that people with conditions that place their reliability in the air in question no longer get to do fun stuff?

It’s worth consideration that if you don’t allow people to seek help and treatment for mental health, they are going to struggle through by themselves and keep flying no matter the possible consequences. Not how that can be considered a more desired outcome.

 

[gatechfan28]

Thanks for the help thus far everyone, I think the unfortunate part is this has been exacerbated by the fact that the Navy doesn’t allow many Mental Health questions to be asked without even being a “downer.”

I know at this point it’s a well known fact that the diagnosis, prognosis, and treatment will be a hard downer for quite some time. I think the big questions are still what the long term Navy plan will be.

I’m not sure if they’ll have someone ride a desk for 5.5 years or a Med board allows for a medical retirement. If there’s anyone that know more on that, it’d be really helpful, too.

 

[Brett327]

It’s worth consideration that if you don’t allow people to seek help and treatment for mental health, they are going to struggle through by themselves and keep flying no matter the possible consequences. Not how that can be considered a more desired outcome.

Of course, and this is by no means limited to mental health. Ultimately there are standards in place for safety reasons, and we have to rely on individuals to self report… even if they risk permanently DQing as a result.

 

[Bad_Karma_1310]

Of course, and this is by no means limited to mental health. Ultimately there are standards in place for safety reasons, and we have to rely on individuals to self report… even if they risk permanently DQing as a result.

I guess my larger point is that those standards haven’t changed for decades even with significant advances in how metal health is treated. There are very few options for aircrew receive treatment and also continue flying even though by all reasonable measures they are completely competent and capable of flying.

This isn’t just a Navy issue, the FAA has very similar standards. But the Navy has control over our own medical processes and has the ability to come up with much more reasonable standards for what is disqualifying.