Medal of Honor criteria and award inflation

[FlyinSpy]

I don't think they have a vote, literally or figuratively. I think it is DoD only.

Interesting link here: http://www.medalofhonor.com/RecommendationProcess.htm

Apparently, the only place Congress would play a role is if it was outside the 2-year limit. (This is an Army-specific example, but I would imagine the other Services would follow a parallel staffing path.)

The following organizations and individuals play key roles in the Army Medal of Honor recommendation process:
CHAIN OF COMMAND
Submits award recommendation that meets the two year submission time limit to Department of the Army Personnel Command
MEMBER OF CONGRESS
Submits award recommendation that is outside the two year limit for submission to Department of the Army Personnel Command or the Secretary of the Army who forwards request to Personnel Command.
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY PERSONNEL COMMAND
Army Decoration Board - Merit Review, can disprove based on criteria (Cdr, HRC can overrule)
Senior Army Decorations Board - Recommends approval, disapproval, or downgrade.
MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS
Concurs or nonconcurs with Board recommendation
CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE ARMY
Concurs or nonconcurs with Board recommendation
SECRETARY OF THE ARMY
Recommends approval or can disapprove. Also forwards packet to Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff for comment.
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE
Recommends approval or can disapprove.
PRESIDENT
Approves or disapproves.

 

[nzachman]

Interesting link here: http://www.medalofhonor.com/RecommendationProcess.htm

Apparently, the only place Congress would play a role is if it was outside the 2-year limit. (This is an Army-specific example, but I would imagine the other Services would follow a parallel staffing path.)

The following organizations and individuals play key roles in the Army Medal of Honor recommendation process:
CHAIN OF COMMAND
Submits award recommendation that meets the two year submission time limit to Department of the Army Personnel Command
MEMBER OF CONGRESS
Submits award recommendation that is outside the two year limit for submission to Department of the Army Personnel Command or the Secretary of the Army who forwards request to Personnel Command.
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY PERSONNEL COMMAND
Army Decoration Board - Merit Review, can disprove based on criteria (Cdr, HRC can overrule)
Senior Army Decorations Board - Recommends approval, disapproval, or downgrade.
MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS
Concurs or nonconcurs with Board recommendation
CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE ARMY
Concurs or nonconcurs with Board recommendation
SECRETARY OF THE ARMY
Recommends approval or can disapprove. Also forwards packet to Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff for comment.
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE
Recommends approval or can disapprove.
PRESIDENT
Approves or disapproves.

Thats pretty interesting. Does anyone know of a situation where it gets all the way to the Secretary of Defense or POTUS and gets denied?

 

[wink]

I don't think they have a vote, literally or figuratively. I think it is DoD only.

Looks like you are right. Actually, I am glad. I prefer the procedure outlined above.

 

[Flash]

I am a little disappointed in this decision.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_re_us/death_by_grenade

 

[FLYTPAY]

I am a little disappointed in this decision.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_re_us/death_by_grenade

Very disapointing indeed. It seems as though the friendly fire incident was the factor that deprived him of the Medal. I hope the people who decided this one can sleep at night with that decision.

 

[Zissou]

Very disappointing indeed. What the hell more could he have done?

I wonder if the Marine Corps is just continuing their strict award policy a little too tightly?

If you ever see a Marine E-5 of below with a BSM? You can bet he was nearly killed while earning it. I saw a CPL in a STA platoon with three Purple Hearts and no higher awards, not even a COM with V. I thought "how the fuck is this kid NOT a hero". How did the poor kid get shot and blown up several times without anyone saying more than "hey dude, your bleeding"?

 

[FLYTPAY]

If you ever see a Marine E-5 of below with a BSM? You can bet he was nearly killed while earning it. I saw a CPL in a STA platoon with three Purple Hearts and no higher awards, not even a COM with V. I thought "how the fuck is this kid NOT a hero". How did the poor kid get shot and blown up several times without anyone saying more than "hey dude, your bleeding"?

And I try to figure out how practically every Army and a good many AF majors were walking around with Bronze Stars. Good on the ones who earned them the hard way.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Headquarters Marine Corps spokesman Maj. David Nevers...said only 23 sailors and Marines out of the thousands who have served in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan have received the Navy Cross.

23 Navy Crosses for OEF/OIF? Really? I think I've heard about maybe three of them, including this one.

Medal inflation or not, DoD has done an absolutely abysmal job of publicizing acts of heroism during the war. I don't know if it's a weird aversion to publicity or what, but there was a time these guys would have been in the newsreels and sent on War Bond tours. Nowadays it's a miracle if his name even gets in the Hometown Daily Bugle.

 

[snake020]

And I try to figure out how practically every Army and a good many AF majors were walking around with Bronze Stars. Good on the ones who earned them the hard way.

Can't speak for the Army, but I can tell you that at Al Udeid, anyone completing a command tour without pissing off their superiors got the Bronze Star. Only two did not; one was the finance squadron commander, the other was my boss. He actually pouted over the fact that he was getting downgraded to an MSM and asked me to delete the decoration presentation from his change of command ceremony. The 1 star came down and ordered that all changes of command were to have a decoration presentation, end of story (there's a lot more drama to the story, but that's the concise version.) Even the services squadron commander (services = handing out basketballs and running the chow hall) got a Bronze Star.

 

[JIMC5499]

It isn't the DOD's fault that the mainstream media won't report these stories. The information is out there, the people on this forum and others that I frequent have no problem finding it. If DOD pushes they are accused of spreading propaganda or trying to brainwash the public.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Let me start off with the fact that I do not regularly read USA Today, but it was hanging from the doorknob of my hotel room today (and all this week). They had an article about this very thing - and it got my blood boiling. Apparently, they convened a panel of experts to include neurosurgeons to look into it. It was the conclusion of the panel that the wound he suffered (a ricochet to the back of the neck) likely killed him instantly, and certainly he wouldn't have been able to accomplish this with his injury.

This is contrary to the FIVE eyewitnesses (only three are required for a MOH), testimony from his battalion surgeons. I guess the sheer force of a 1 lb hand grenade is capable of lodging itself between his body and the ground. QUICK - Arrest Jonathan Papelbon, because he MUST have been the one that threw the grenade.

We better rescind some MOH's after consulting with some doctors...

Can you tell I'm pissed?

Semper Fi, Sgt Peralta, semper fi.

 

[Flash]

Very disapointing indeed. It seems as though the friendly fire incident was the factor that deprived him of the Medal. I hope the people who decided this one can sleep at night with that decision.

Apparently, they convened a panel of experts to include neurosurgeons to look into it. It was the conclusion of the panel that the wound he sufferedlikely killed him instantly, and certainly he wouldn't have been able to accomplish this with his injury.

This is contrary to the FIVE eyewitnesses (only three are required for a MOH), testimony from his battalion surgeons.

Semper Fi, Sgt Peralta, semper fi.

I had a WWII Marine veteran as a neighbor when I was growing up. He showed me his Division 'yearbook' from the war, it had highlights from what campaigns it had been in and stuff about where they had trained and other aspects of life they went through. One of the biggest spreads was on the 8 men that had been awarded the Medal of Honor. About 5 or 6 of them had earned it by jumping on grenades, and at least one and maybe two had even survived. Without a doubt though, every instance I have ever read of a US servicemen jumping on a grenade has resulted in them being awarded a Medal of Honor.

I really don't care what a bunch of docs who weren't there say, if you can't trust 5 Marines who actually saw the action take place then who the heck can you trust?

One thing that this does bring up for me is our lack of an equivalent 'non-combat' award to the Medal of Honor. Many other countries have an equivalent that can be awarded in a 'friendly fire' or other non-combat incident. Britain has the George Cross, Canada and Australia have their own versions of a Cross of Valour and New Zealand has a New Zealand Cross. All of the awards are 'equal' to the Victoria Cross and the George Cross has been awarded several times in Iraq and Afgahnistan to Brits. Just a thought. Either way, I think Sgt Peralta deserves the MOH in this case.

 

[Flash]

And I try to figure out how practically every Army and a good many AF majors were walking around with Bronze Stars. Good on the ones who earned them the hard way.

Can't speak for the Army, but I can tell you that at Al Udeid, anyone completing a command tour without pissing off their superiors got the Bronze Star.......Even the services squadron commander (services = handing out basketballs and running the chow hall) got a Bronze Star.

There is a big difference between just a Bronze Star and a Bronze Star with a V for Valor. I don't put much stock at all in just a Bronze Star anymore, especially when it seems just about every Army E-7 and above who does a tour in OIF or OEF rates them if they don't screw up. The only ones who don't seem to hand them out like candy are the Marines.

A Bronze Star for Valor on the other hand, if you look at the stats the number of those awarded are much smaller and the ones I am familiar with have definitely earned it.

 

[Flash]

One more thing, why the heck did it take them FOUR YEARS to come up with this decision? I guess by today's standards they would have been getting around to deciding if the guys who were recommended for a Medal of Honor at Pearl Harbor around VJ Day. Unacceptable. :icon_rage

 

[gotta_fly]

One more thing, why the heck did it take them FOUR YEARS to come up with this decision? I guess by today's standards they would have been getting around to deciding if the guys who were recommended for a Medal of Honor at Pearl Harbor around VJ Day. Unacceptable. :icon_rage

"Back in the day" they could get things done faster when necessary... in this particular case it was a matter of hours. What that article leaves out is the fact that the medal that was flown to his bedside was actually 'borrowed' from another recipient's display in Pearl Harbor, because it was the only physical Medal of Honor in the Pacific at the time.