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Marksmanship

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
As a 7th grader in the 80's, I remember shop class (Don't remember car maint included in our syllabus), but it got balanced out with a few weeks of "home economics"...I'm sure great info, but not for a 13 yr old boy. ☺️
Same for me in the 90s in Syracuse. It started in 6th and 7th grade. Shop was called "tech" but it taught us how to use hand and power tools, how do basic things like measure twice and cut once. But we also had to design and build balsa wood bridges that would hold x amount of weight, how to design and build basic pneumatic robots, and yes, how to change fluids in an engine. We had a radio station and we learned how to do minor electrical repair stuff- soldering circuits and what not.

Home and Careers (home ec) taught us basic cooking and kitchen safety (the best part of cooking is eating, but you have to clean up first...), how to sew and mend clothes, how to clean different stuff (and to not mix ammonia and bleach) and use all of the different appliances.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Home and Careers (home ec) taught us basic cooking and kitchen safety (the best part of cooking is eating, but you have to clean up first...), how to sew and mend clothes, how to clean different stuff (and to not mix ammonia and bleach) and use all of the different appliances.
I was being a bit flip in my dis of home ec...I honestly wish I knew how to cook for myself way earlier in life.

Being able to cook an egg in all ways possible is a basic skill...😊
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
That's good to hear. I'm far removed from secondary education policy,..so definitely no expert...but, I've always thought that there should be more avenues for kids to pursue in HS beyond just prep for going to college (and getting a BS degree and mountains of debt).
That paradigm is shifting. Many of today’s kids watching all the hoopla and politicization around student debt aren’t eager to be a part of it. My oldest hasn’t quite started high school, but we already talk about college as the means to an end (rather than for its own sake) and strategies to pay for college (scholarships, GI bill, and good ole fashioned work.)
 

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
We had a laugh at the office regarding the infamous pic. A Reservist who is an FBI agent pointed out how absurd the "shoulder stock in the shoulder pocket is", as the Bureau has long since done away with shooting long guns from the shoulder. Apparently the current FBI Academy technique is to place stock on chest (on the plate carrier), collapsed, slightly off center to dominant side with face up off the stock and both eyes open. The goal being similar muscle memory and sight picture as combat shooting a service pistol. Interesting.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
We had a laugh at the office regarding the infamous pic. A Reservist who is an FBI agent pointed out how absurd the "shoulder stock in the shoulder pocket is", as the Bureau has long since done away with shooting long guns from the shoulder. Apparently the current FBI Academy technique is to place stock on chest (on the plate carrier), collapsed, slightly off center to dominant side with face up off the stock and both eyes open. The goal being similar muscle memory and sight picture as combat shooting a service pistol. Interesting.
That’s certainly valid for CQB with a plate carrier. But I didn’t realize shouldering a rifle was now considered absurd. How interesting.

ETA: and a high-offset optic/irons
 
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Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
We had a laugh at the office regarding the infamous pic. A Reservist who is an FBI agent pointed out how absurd the "shoulder stock in the shoulder pocket is", as the Bureau has long since done away with shooting long guns from the shoulder. Apparently the current FBI Academy technique is to place stock on chest (on the plate carrier), collapsed, slightly off center to dominant side with face up off the stock and both eyes open. The goal being similar muscle memory and sight picture as combat shooting a service pistol. Interesting.
Maybe you misunderstood Chuck…or maybe the FBI is a 90 shots fired to kill a single non-moving target in an SUV kind of shop now. What it sounds like is some kind of a CQB stance but your optic setup (assuming you need that kind of weakness) must be super weird.
 

Random8145

Registered User
I think firearms safety and handling should be taught in our schools seeing as the right to bears arms is granted by the constitution. They should adapt and evolve as kids get older.

We teach drivers education in schools and safety around streets and roads, but driving isn't a right.
One nitpick, but the Constitution doesn't grant anything as far as natural rights go, it protects what are pre-existing rights. The Founders themselves saw the Bill of Rights as redundant even, because the Constitution doesn't grant the Federal government the power to infringe upon such rights, and by stating no such infringement shall occur, it could give those inclined the mindset that some level of infringement is okay.
 
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Random8145

Registered User
Wholeheartedly agree! The older I get, the more I think government and big corporate interests want to eliminate as much personal agency and critical thinking as they can, to consolidate their hold on power and money.

Be part of the solution. Teach a kid to fish/shoot/change the oil in the car.
There is an argument that that has been the government and corporate interests' goal since the late 1800s. That was why the public education system became based off of the Prussian system, which was excellent at producing soldiers and employees, and why the public school system had the bell system with different classrooms for each class, versus the same classroom for each grade like in private schools, because it was to condition children. Industry and government interests wanted people who would make obedient employees and pliable consumers and of course pliable voters. T. Boone Pickens inadvertently mentioned this in a book of his years ago, when he talked about how when going to work for a big oil company in the 1950s, it was just like school. You'd go into work, mingle around for a bit, then the bell would ring and you would get to your work station, as you'd been conditioned to by the school system.

A classical education that taught people how to engage in critical thinking skills was reserved for the elite in the Prussian system I believe (I might be mistaken). There are some who also argue that if you really look at who drove the effort to stop child labor, it was big industrial interests themselves, because a problem with child labor, from a long-term social engineering standpoint, is that it makes children turn into adults really fast, which is again something you don't want from a social engineering standpoint. A big corporation with loads of factory workers wants them to be obedient and pliable, not well-educated and very much mature adults, as those can create a whole lot of trouble. However, then WWII happened, and then the Space Race started in the late '50s, which threw a monkey wrench into the whole thing, because now we needed students who were educated in math and science and engineering and could think critically.

Today, the public school system retains these old social engineering remnants leftover from early times, as things like socialism and the idea that the future consisted of just giant corporations with armies of industrial worker drones has gone by the wayside. I've also read that if you research into it, you'll find that you can actually bake a cake from scratch just as fast as a box cake allows, and that corporations were responsible for the impression that baking a cake fast needed a box cake. Companies used to ship instructions on how to disassemble appliances to repair them too.

Today, there's the whole "Right to Repair" movement because companies actively seek to make it where you can't take apart and repair your own stuff, from John Deere tractors to smartphones. And while people may think I am being conspiratorial, I very much believe there is an element of society among big government and big corporate types who want people dumbed down, with no mechanical or repair skills, no guns, and no physical currency either. And mandatory self-driving cars when the technology is available. And no individual homes either, and no meat (unless bugs).

Luckily, there are the Maker and Prepper and Right to Repair movements that help counter this.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
I already know how to bake, shoot, fix (or rig) almost anything without a motherboard, in addition to that I write poetry, history, and intellectual missives on Air Warriors. So, fuck you Prussia! As for the rest of you, welcome to your future!

1713094176842.jpeg
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
There is an argument that that has been the government and corporate interests' goal since the late 1800s. That was why the public education system became based off of the Prussian system, which was excellent at producing soldiers and employees, and why the public school system had the bell system with different classrooms for each class, versus the same classroom for each grade like in private schools, because it was to condition children. Industry and government interests wanted people who would make obedient employees and pliable consumers and of course pliable voters.
Are you fucking serious with this shit?

So private school students don't rotate classrooms?

Prussians?

 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Private schools use the bell system. Not sure where you came up with that.
To be fair to @Random8145 it is true that the “Prussian” style was brought to us by Horace Mann as the first model for public schools and that system was designed to prepare the children of the lesser classes for work in an industrial setting where punctuality and obedience were as important as the fundamentals of reading, writing, and arithmetic. But, much of that system was replaced by John Dewey who gave us the “college prep” program through which most of us passed. That system, however, lost control with too much belly-button gazing and not enough fundamental education so it has morphed into the Modern Testing Model (standardized “No Child Left Behind” tests) and teaching “21st Century Skills.”

I hope you enjoyed our little meander through America’s education system. As for me, I say go back to one-room schools and punitive paddling to get those little bastards back in line!
 

Hair Warrior

Well-Known Member
Contributor
We had a laugh at the office regarding the infamous pic. A Reservist who is an FBI agent pointed out how absurd the "shoulder stock in the shoulder pocket is", as the Bureau has long since done away with shooting long guns from the shoulder. Apparently the current FBI Academy technique is to place stock on chest (on the plate carrier), collapsed, slightly off center to dominant side with face up off the stock and both eyes open. The goal being similar muscle memory and sight picture as combat shooting a service pistol. Interesting.
I’ve been taught that stance as well, but we were also told to do whatever is comfortable. Also, I didn’t need to collapse my rifle stock to shoot this way. The main benefit we were told is it helps keep our front plate square to the threat, vs exposing our side. I can’t recall anyone who kept their side plates in, either.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I hope you enjoyed our little meander through America’s education system. As for me, I say go back to one-room schools and punitive paddling to get those little bastards back in line!
Not opposed to corporal punishment necessarily (maybe a bit)...but I will say I got 3 'licks' in the hallway as a 7th grader from a woman who believed the moon landings were faked by Hollywood...so there's that. I probably deserved it, but I have questions about people like this entrusted to carry it out. 😆
 
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