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Logging time

tk628

Electronic Attack Savant
pilot
This was brought in another thread.... but I have one for you guys

I have all the quals I would need to fly a T-6 on the outside (complex,high alt, high performance)... but I'm a stud in primary... I got 90 hours of FP time, but only 7 AC when I was solo... how much time did I really get?

Would I be able to add the 90 to my TT and just the 7 to PIC?
 

HackerF15E

Retired Strike Pig Driver
None
It depends on why you care.

According to Part 91, if you are the "sole manipulator of the controls", then you can log it as PIC.

If you are planning on applying to an airline in your future, they only care about "PIC" time that was earned when YOU were personally the one responsible for the aircraft. In the USAF that means that you signed the release prior to flight, but not sure how that works in the Navy.

You're welcome to log time any way you see fit, but realize that there is a difference between what the FAA says you CAN log and what employers are going to be looking for in your logbook eventually.
 

tk628

Electronic Attack Savant
pilot
It depends on why you care.

According to Part 91, if you are the "sole manipulator of the controls", then you can log it as PIC.....

There are a couple caveat to this part 91 thing... like in my case you have to have the certificate and endorsements if the a/c require it... like the T-6 would require, so most studs would not be able to call FP time PIC in the part 91 relm of things.... b/c no PPL, high alt, complex, or high performance

I dont really care about the airlines, because my books have big enough numbers where this isn't going to really matter, I just want to get/keep a good system with my time.

I am leaning toward +90TT and the +7 PIC and that should keep me safe for any future employment if the question was to rise.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
I am leaning toward +90TT and the +7 PIC and that should keep me safe for any future employment if the question was to rise.
It may be a difference of the way the AF logs and records guys do the books, but for Navy solos in Primary, they don't log AC time. I think you could argue that you could for the FAA, but since you're not winged, that's why it's not done on the Navy side.

I remember Fly talking about how they did it in Advanced, but can't remember how they logged it there. Could also be different since those guys have an instrument check.

EDIT: I have my first logbook sitting here on my desk, and I have no AC time in both Primary or HTs, including my Airnav solo in HTs when I was instrument qual'ed. Obviously YMMV.
 

FLYTPAY

Pro-Rec Fighter Pilot
pilot
None
I say who cares....that time does not matter in the scheme of things....but yes, it is good for the civilian side too.....if you ever need to prove the time, just present the military log book, in your case, do not duplicate the entry in your civi log....that is from a CFI perspective.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
If you want it in your civilian log, log it as 90 total time, 7 hours of PIC and 83 hours of dual received. Plus the various night, cross country, etc. entries.

In the remarks, say it is Navy training, you could even list the event number. For the solo flights also say it is Navy solo training flight.

And don't forget civilian time is block out to block in, not takeoff to landing like the Navy. So your hours are slightly higher for civilian purposes.

This is the perspective from another CFI.....

Why do I think you should keep a civilian log? Navy logbooks sometimes get lost. I personally use an electronic logbook and it allows me to enter block out, takeoff, landing and block in times. For me, it's a pay thing. For you, it's an easy way to compare military totals versus civilian totals. Plus if you ever do want to transition to the airlines, applications are so much easier when everything is is in a good electronic logbook. It makes figuring out the various app categories easy.

Also as far as the various times - some airlines will allow a military to civilian fudge factor to make up for the different ways of computing flight time and some don't. If you have a complete civilian log, you don't have to worry about this.

Also if you keep a civilian log as you go, it's a lot easier than trying to reconstruct everything when you eventually need/want it.
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
Is there something like that available online, or are you just talking about throwing one together on excel?
 

HooverPilot

CODPilot
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Once again, I offer this site:

http://www.navalaviator.net

I have used this for several years now and I love it. I know many others who use it too. It's designed for the Naval Aviator and will do many calculations for you.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Is there something like that available online, or are you just talking about throwing one together on excel?
I use Logbook Pro ( www.logbookpro.com ). I have the pocket pc version on my pda phone and I use it whenever I fly to track my various legs. When I sync my phone with my computer, it automatically updates my master log.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
What's a good way to convert military to civilian if you haven't kept track of "block-in/block-out"?
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
What's a good way to convert military to civilian if you haven't kept track of "block-in/block-out"?
I think the most commonly used conversion factor is to add 0.3 to each flight. If you plan on starting a civilian log and going back to your first flight, it would be safe to use that. No one will ever question it (especially since civilian logging is self certifying). But in the future, I'd track it if you are going to keep a civilian log. There were many times in the P-3 we sat at the hold short for a while or had long taxis. A 0.3 conversion probably shorted the pilots on their civilian time.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
I've used a civ log for all of my flights so far in the pipeline. On some flights I've been able to add .6 or .7 to what the Navy logged, depending on sitting in the fuel pits, waiting on troubleshooters, etc. I think the average is around .2-.3 more. All I do is put the appropriate day/night/etc, log it all as dual recieved (except for my solos, put is as PIC), and put the event # and IP in the comments.

As far as I know, it won't make much difference since I've already taken my commercial exam, but it's a second copy and I've logged considerably more time in the civ log as compared to the Navy's log.
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
So let's say I star a new civilian logbook (electronic or written) and go back and fill out all of my flights from scratch. What do I bring with me to my ATP exam and subsequent airline interviews? All of them (2 civilian books, 3 military books, et al)? Won't that look shady?
 

HackerF15E

Retired Strike Pig Driver
None
So let's say I star a new civilian logbook (electronic or written) and go back and fill out all of my flights from scratch. What do I bring with me to my ATP exam and subsequent airline interviews? All of them (2 civilian books, 3 military books, et al)? Won't that look shady?
Nope, certainly lots of folks have done that. Bring 'em all, but be sure to have a nice tally sheet with all the times totaled and broken down like your interviewer wants to see them.

You just need to be able to explain the differences in time between your civil logbook's documentation of your military sorties (using block in/out times) and your Military logbook (brake release to touchdown).

I don't think it's a big deal at all...just have your crap together.

I heard an anecdote from a friend who retired and was going through the interview process. Another military dude at his SWA interview was *dismissed* from the interview because there were inconsistencies between his civilian an military logs, and he did not have an explanation for that. I am not sure if the implication was that he was lieing in his logs, or if they thought he had gross inattention to detail, OR if they were dissatisfied that he didn't know/understand the regs under which he was logging time.

Either way...a situation it would be best to avoid!
 
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