Larger 60 Det on Amphib

[Flying Low]

Anyone have any decisional briefs on uping the size of the 60 det on a LHD? I know the west coast is already doing this and I'm working the same problem for the east coast. I can provide a high side email address if your brief crosses those lines.

Any briefs on the subject will result in free beer!!!

V/r

Smoke

 

[Hozer]

why?

 

[Pags]

Anyone have any decisional briefs on uping the size of the 60 det on a LHD? I know the west coast is already doing this and I'm working the same problem for the east coast. I can provide a high side email address if your brief crosses those lines.

Any briefs on the subject will result in free beer!!!

V/r

Smoke

Is the plan still 3 birds? I tend to think 4 would offer real capability. Then you'd have 4 to make 3 and from that 3 you could have a section to do other missions and still have a bird in the D.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

What kind of "other missions"? I don't see how they could justify more 60's with less and less space. Other than starboard d, vertrep, and PMC, what could be done that that H-1's don't do?

 

[Col Angus]

This is so dumb. Only makes sense if that particular amphib is carrying 24 av-8/f-35 and no cobras or Huey's. Otherwise it's a redundant capability. Sort of. It's like keeping that old kneeboard around, just in case. Even though that old kneeboard has it's own purpose in the starboard d.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Perhaps it would offer more flexibility in the event of a split-ARG.

 

[Col Angus]

A split arg or disaggregated meu which is not mutually supportive is no longer a meu or arg. It's a series of ships and aircraft that did a work up together then sailed for different places with different missions, probably working for different commanders. A plussed up 60 det makes sense for the harrier carrier off doing its own thing. It doesn't make sense for the meu whose ships disaggregate for the purpose of wider presence within the same ao, but remain a days sail or so apart. In that case I agree w/ treetop, that the extra 60s just take up precious space. Less room for mcmap and basketball in the hangar.

 

[Pags]

The utility of a 3 bird Armed Helicopter (née SAR) det is debatable. My point was if USN/USMC has decided to go that route then they should bring 4 to support a section to do non-SAR things while still maintaining the SAR posture required by LHD NATOPS.

My opinion is that in the future the Skids will live on the LPD. I don't think there will be room for all the MEU's planes as each aircraft is replaced with airplanes with a bigger footprint.

I also wonder about the need to bring all 10 v-22s on the LHD. The range that the 22 offers really opens up a lot of options, you could leave a few with Sumo and then drag them where needed, even back to the boat if the situation warrants. But that's getting in to wondering if the MEU/ARG has to be centralized or can it be split apart to go accomplish several things at the same time.

 

[wlawr005]

The Navy helos do train to more than just holding in starboard D. If they were afforded the opportunity to have enough birds to make a section, they could continue training to those tactics while on deployment. Who knows, maybe with enough time they may actually even become proficient and more relevant in the tactical community.

If you gave a -60 a GAU, it could do a lot more than a Huey.

 

[sickboy]

The Navy helos do train to more than just holding in starboard D. If they were afforded the opportunity to have enough birds to make a section, they could continue training to those tactics while on deployment. Who knows, maybe with enough time they may actually even become proficient and more relevant in the tactical community.

If you gave a -60 a GAU, it could do a lot more than a Huey.

We've had so many stoppages that we pretty much just shoot the GAU for currency. But when it works, it's an awesome piece of equipment.

 

[wlawr005]

I was talking more along the lines of the -17, but the -21 can throw some weight downrange.

 

[robav8r]

Other than starboard d, vertrep, and PMC, what could be done that that H-1's don't do?

VBSS

 

[Treetop Flyer]

The Navy helos do train to more than just holding in starboard D. If they were afforded the opportunity to have enough birds to make a section, they could continue training to those tactics while on deployment. Who knows, maybe with enough time they may actually even become proficient and more relevant in the tactical community.

If you gave a -60 a GAU, it could do a lot more than a Huey.

I agree with the first part of your post. However, they don't do what skids do, for good reason.

 

[Randy Daytona]

And what is that reason?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Training, I suppose. My experiences with 60's are mostly limited to CAS. Of the seven or so sections I've seen/controlled, all but one were absolutely terrible. Strapping guns to a helicopter doesn't make it something new. If they spend most of their time in starboard d or doing PMC runs, they don't have much time to be good at anything else. For that reason, a 60 with a gun is not more capable than a Huey. Not even close.