joining the navy this week. hoping to become naval aviator and need some guidance

[n3k]

first off, i am surprised that there aren't any more posts in this discussion so it makes me wonder if i'm actually posting this in the right place. but anyways...

i'm wondering what strategy i should employ to achieve my goal of becoming a naval aviator. i have a pretty unique situation. i'm 24 and am shipping for RTC on june 23rd (this wednesday). i am going in as AV through the A2E (accelerate to excellence) program. i went to college at a university for 3 years and didn't get kicked out but my grades were terrible. out of those 3 years i have about 1 year worth of credits that have high enough grades to transfer. having said that, i just completed an entire year of going to school while in DEP and received straight A's (well except one B but i am seeing my professor about it next week because i think it is a mistake). i will be taking another semester of college in pensacola, fl and then finishing A-school will give me my associate's degree and at least a rank of E-4. what should my next step be? i know i will need a bachelor's degree to become a pilot/officer. should i apply for STA-21, SOCNAV, NSPACE, or all of the above? i turn 25 in october so the clock is ticking. thanks for any advice you guys are willing to offer and i'll keep this thread updated with my progress

 

[Pepe]

first off, i am surprised that there aren't any more posts in this discussion so it makes me wonder if i'm actually posting this in the right place. but anyways...

i'm wondering what strategy i should employ to achieve my goal of becoming a naval aviator. i have a pretty unique situation. i'm 24 and am shipping for RTC on june 23rd (this wednesday). i am going in as AV through the A2E (accelerate to excellence) program. i went to college at a university for 3 years and didn't get kicked out but my grades were terrible. out of those 3 years i have about 1 year worth of credits that have high enough grades to transfer. having said that, i just completed an entire year of going to school while in DEP and received straight A's (well except one B but i am seeing my professor about it next week because i think it is a mistake). i will be taking another semester of college in pensacola, fl and then finishing A-school will give me my associate's degree and at least a rank of E-4. what should my next step be? i know i will need a bachelor's degree to become a pilot/officer. should i apply for STA-21, SOCNAV, NSPACE, or all of the above? i turn 25 in october so the clock is ticking. thanks for any advice you guys are willing to offer and i'll keep this thread updated with my progress

All of the above. The more programs you apply for the better your chances are of getting picked up. If you get accepted to more than one program, you can pick the one that suits you best. You're going to look pretty good on paper (Assuming you haven't completely dicked something up and hidden it from us) because you're going to be a cheap buy. With your prior college credits, the navy isn't going to have to shell out as much cash to get a warm body and fulfill it's recruiting goals.

 

[Floppy_D]

It's gonna be hard, and here's why. If you shoot for STA-21, you'll need good evals to have a competitve package. Those good evals come from proving yourself for a couple years at your first operational command. Let's say you shoot for your degree first through SOCNAV-4 approved schools. You still have to shoot for OCS after you get your degree, and when you're at an operational command, that's hard to do. I know they're working to get people going to college while at sea, but the bulk of folks I knew who had success in college did so on shore duty, which is still years away from you. Both of these things boil down to your main enemy; your age. It's gonna be hard to herd all of those cats by the deadline.

If you're serious about pursuing a commission, start working on proving yourself a worthy candidate, and don't ever stop doing that. Don't get pissed off and quit when your first STA-21 application gets shot down, or when being underway prevents you from taking a class you need. It can be done, but you're going to have to work twice as hard because of your age. Keep at it, and good luck.

 

[EM1]

i will be taking another semester of college in pensacola, fl and then finishing A-school

On a side note, this will not happen. You will not be permitted to take classes while in or before A School (definately not on the Navy's dime). You can try to hide it from your chain of command and pay for them on your own, but that may or may not work out.

Here is a copy of the most recent TA (tuition assistance) NAVADMIN. http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/E8692AF5-13E3-4C7C-9414-3677C064A49E/0/NAV10105.txt
pay particular attention to #5

REQUIRED TIME ONBOARD FIRST PERMANENT DUTY STATION (PDS). THE INITIAL
MONTHS ONBOARD A FIRST PDS ARE A CRITICAL TIME FOR SAILORS TO BECOME FAMILIAR
WITH COMMAND OPERATIONS AND PROGRESS TOWARDS WARFARE QUALIFICATIONS.
THEREFORE, OFFICER AND ENLISTED NEW ACCESSIONS ARE NOW REQUIRED TO HAVE ONE
YEAR ONBOARD THEIR FIRST PDS BEFORE TA OR NCPACE FUNDS WILL BE AUTHORIZED.
THOSE INDIVIDUALS ENROLLED IN EDUCATION PROGRAMS AS OF THE DATE OF THIS
NAVADMIN ARE EXEMPT FROM THE ONE YEAR REQUIREMENT, AND MAY CONTINUE RECEIVING
BENEFITS AS LONG AS THEY REMAIN ELIGIBLE

your first PDS will be your fist ship or squadron. Not your A School in Pensacola

Not trying to put you down, just making sure you have all the facts before you get into something with the wrong ideas about how your plans will play out.

Good luck, and hit the deckplates running.

 

[n3k]

thank you all for your replies so far!

On a side note, this will not happen. You will not be permitted to take classes while in or before A School (definately not on the Navy's dime). You can try to hide it from your chain of command and pay for them on your own, but that may or may not work out.

under normal circumstances this is probably the case but the A2E program i'm in states that i must take a semester in pensacola and then finish my degree out with A-school. EDIT: this lists all the details within the A2E program - http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/publications/Directives/1133.11A.pdf.

8. Training Track. The following is the normal training track for A2E Program participants after enlisting into the DEP:
a. Enroll in and attend a college within the NAVCRUITDIST’s boundaries. Upon completion of the first academic year, the participant will be promoted to E2.
b. Access onto Active Duty and ship to Recruit Training Command. Upon graduation, the participant will be advanced to
E3.
c. Enroll in a Navy “Partner College” for one semester to complete non-American Council on Education (ACE) courses.
d. Attend Navy Class “A” School. Upon graduation and receipt of an Associate's Degree, the participant will be promoted to E4.
e. Report to first permanent duty station.

Here is a copy of the most recent TA (tuition assistance) NAVADMIN. http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/E8692AF5-13E3-4C7C-9414-3677C064A49E/0/NAV10105.txt
pay particular attention to #5 your first PDS will be your fist ship or squadron. Not your A School in Pensacola

Not trying to put you down, just making sure you have all the facts before you get into something with the wrong ideas about how your plans will play out.

Good luck, and hit the deckplates running.

yeah, that does put a bit of a kink in my plans. thanks for the heads up.

 

[n3k]

If you're serious about pursuing a commission, start working on proving yourself a worthy candidate, and don't ever stop doing that. Don't get pissed off and quit when your first STA-21 application gets shot down, or when being underway prevents you from taking a class you need. It can be done, but you're going to have to work twice as hard because of your age. Keep at it, and good luck.

would proving myself a worthy candidate involve my getting a private pilot's license? i might try to pull that off while going to school for that semester in pensacola if time allows. if nothing else, it would help me out on the ASTB right?

also, since you're actually in pensacola, do you know of a good school to get my license from?

 

[VulcanRider]

An ASTB study book would probably help you more than having a PPL. There are a lot of parts to the test. Having a PPL is only going to drain your wallet and what little time you have while taking that semester of classes, and going to / studying for A-School.

The biggest thing with your age, is that you need to be effective and efficient with your efforts. Stick to it and don't lose sight of your goal.

 

[Floppy_D]

When you get to your ship/squadron, and time comes to send off OCS applications and STA-21 applications, your command will make a determination on who has a shot at it. They're going to pick the top performers. Being close to your degree and having a PPL does not make you a top performer. Holding good collateral duties, seeking responsibility and building a good track record as a tech/operator make you a performer. It may be a year or more before your command even considers you for one of these programs. Remember, you're enlisting to be an enlisted servicemember. If you show up on day one more concerned about taking classes than getting dirty and getting shit done, it's really going to hurt you.

I went the STA-21 route myself, like many other folks here, and I'm pretty sure any of them will tell you that step 1 of the STA-21 application process is building a good reputation by busting your ass and proving that you are dependable, hard-working and dedicated. You simply can't do that in a month or two. I didn't even apply until I had been onboard the ship for a couple years, because I wanted to submit a strong package, and I wanted my command's support. You're not going to be the only person interested in these programs. This is why I mentioned your age as a factor; this could take a while.

You're on the right track with the education. When you get to your first duty station, show up to work, and have some enthusiasm. Stand out. Within the first month or two, your Chief or First Class will inevitably ask you what you want to do with your career. That's a good time to bring it up. Good luck to you, PM me if you need specific details or anything.

 

[n3k]

An ASTB study book would probably help you more than having a PPL. There are a lot of parts to the test. Having a PPL is only going to drain your wallet and what little time you have while taking that semester of classes, and going to / studying for A-School.

The biggest thing with your age, is that you need to be effective and efficient with your efforts. Stick to it and don't lose sight of your goal.

i guess i see those two things u said as a conflicting each other. if i can afford it and have the time to do it, shouldn't i be pulling all the stops and doing everything i can to make my packet look better? or does having a PPL really not make a difference?

 

[n3k]

Good luck to you, PM me if you need specific details or anything.

thanks for being so helpful. i appreciate all your advice you have given me so far.

 

[HeyJoe]

i guess i see those two things u said as a conflicting each other. if i can afford it and have the time to do it, shouldn't i be pulling all the stops and doing everything i can to make my packet look better? or does having a PPL really not make a difference?

If I were looking at your package, I'd care more about seeing evidence related to reversing your less than stellar grades, which you seemed to have turned around and some leadership/community service. Navy maintains it can teach anyone to fly (regardless of prior experience or lack thereof) and gives you stairstep approach starting with IFS so PPL isn't the boost many think it is unless you're trying to see if you are aeronautically adaptable. In that case, find an active or former Naval Aviator to fly with, but don't waste your time and money trying for a PPL.

 

[n3k]

i guess i see those two things u said as a conflicting each other. if i can afford it and have the time to do it, shouldn't i be pulling all the stops and doing everything i can to make my packet look better? or does having a PPL really not make a difference?

nevermind i think Floppy_D and heyjoe explained it pretty well

If you show up on day one more concerned about taking classes than getting dirty and getting shit done, it's really going to hurt you.

If I were looking at your package, I'd care more about seeing evidence related to reversing your less than stellar grades, which you seemed to have turned around and some leadership/community service. Navy maintains it can teach anyone to fly (regardless of prior experience or lack thereof) and gives you stairstep approach starting with IFS so PPL isn't the boost many think it is unless you're trying to see if you are aeronautically adaptable. In that case, find an active or former Naval Aviator to fly with, but don't waste your time and money trying for a PPL.

 

[wrecklessfool]

Like the guys above stated, your performance at your new command will be the strongest indicator of officer potential to your CO as well as the selection board. Getting a PPL is small potatoes in the grand scheme of your application. I would focus more on your primary responsibilities at your new command, getting your quals in record time, taking on collateral duties, and pecking away at college courses as time permits. Since you have some college credits under your belt, and your A school is likely to provide you with more credits that transfer (depending on the school you pick), I would focus more on the other things that matter in your package. For the STA-21 program, your CO's recommendation letter is weighed the heaviest in the selection process. Without a strong recommendation, your package will likely be slipped to the bottom of the stack in a hurry. Also, for programs like STA-21, I have had shipmates that were denied recommendation by their CO because they had TOO many college credits. The reasoning was that you were so close to degree completion that they recommend you complete your degree and apply for OCS. I know ROTC units don't want folks coming to the unit and graduating in a single semester. This doesn't afford the unit the opportunity to "shape" you into the officer they want hitting the fleet after commissioning. I'm sure this trickles down to the boards, and will surely show in the selection process. I also had this happen to a fellow STA-21er who could have commissioned after two summer semesters at the unit. He was required to stay for the Fall semester as well and take additional uneeded classes to get immersed in the ROTC atmosphere before being granted a commission.

 

[n3k]

Like the guys above stated, your performance at your new command will be the strongest indicator of officer potential to your CO as well as the selection board. Getting a PPL is small potatoes in the grand scheme of your application. I would focus more on your primary responsibilities at your new command, getting your quals in record time, taking on collateral duties, and pecking away at college courses as time permits. Since you have some college credits under your belt, and your A school is likely to provide you with more credits that transfer (depending on the school you pick), I would focus more on the other things that matter in your package. For the STA-21 program, your CO's recommendation letter is weighed the heaviest in the selection process. Without a strong recommendation, your package will likely be slipped to the bottom of the stack in a hurry. Also, for programs like STA-21, I have had shipmates that were denied recommendation by their CO because they had TOO many college credits. The reasoning was that you were so close to degree completion that they recommend you complete your degree and apply for OCS. I know ROTC units don't want folks coming to the unit and graduating in a single semester. This doesn't afford the unit the opportunity to "shape" you into the officer they want hitting the fleet after commissioning. I'm sure this trickles down to the boards, and will surely show in the selection process. I also had this happen to a fellow STA-21er who could have commissioned after two summer semesters at the unit. He was required to stay for the Fall semester as well and take additional uneeded classes to get immersed in the ROTC atmosphere before being granted a commission.

okay, so from what you are saying it looks like i should aim for being at least two semesters away from completing a bachelors while also trying to balance the fact that i need to complete my degree by 27 (29 at the latest right?). the way i see it, i will have my associate's next year about this time which means i will be 25. one year at PDS puts me at 26. it looks to me like i would need a waiver no matter what to complete by age 29 and be at least a year from graduating. looks like i'll be walking a tight rope.

 

[HeyJoe]

You're definitely on what is called a "critical path" and there are simply things ahead you won't be able to control or manage like illness or injury that you can't afford to delay you. Being in the Navy (or Marine Corps) is no 9 to 5 job so expect watches, Dets/deployments, weird hours/shifts to collide with your need to study and attend classes. I'd suggest reading through at least the STA-21 thread as far back as it goes to see what people have had to overcome as far as obstacles or multiple applications.

As others have said, even though you're planning to bust your butt, you can't expect command to move you into top of the pack upon arrival. You may be in First Lieutenant division buffing floors for months or lugging chains as a plane captain before you get to your shop and have a chance to compete in your rate or get sent TAD to supply/mess decks/etc. on ship for weeks/months as part of your unit's augmentation of ship's company to support the embarked Air Wing. Hours and stress can be brutal and many Aviators to youngest sailor can fall into cycle of eat, work eat, work, eat, sleep and not much else (add another "eat" if you favor Mid Rats).

So don't count on having either spare time or energy when you do when not at work or predictable hours for that matter. My hat's off to anyone who muscles through those challenges and gets into an enlisted commissioning program. It simply ain't easy and requires a lot of motivation, persistence and sacrifice.