We’re just tossing around opinions at this point. If you have some data to share to support your assertion over mine, I’m certainly open to that.
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Is this a common feeling
- Thread starter poseidon69$$$
- Start date
It’s not the lateral part I have a problem with. It’s the “I’ll just decide to get a promotion at work today” mindset that he was pitching.
I wouldn't say you're just stuck. There are options within the organization (the DoD) as a whole to change what your primary job is, inter-service transfers, different schools and education programs, difference congressional aid programs. You also have some interaction with your detailer/monitor. You can barter and trade for where you go next. (The worst the military can say to you is no). Now you won't get picked up for those as a sandbag, you have to perform.
There is plenty of freedom, and 30 days of paid leave a year is nice. I know guys who have done the backpacking trips to Machu Picchu, or who sailed to the Caribbean and back. I also know guys went to places they'd never go because of the military. Petra, the Alps, Pattaya and Chang Mei, Munich during Oktoberfest, the Solomon Islands...
Let's also talk QOL of a 22 year old fresh college grad working a desk job vs that of an SNA. the SNA just found his best friends for the rest of his life, he's getting paid to fly very expensive, very high performance airplanes. He has plenty of time off for shenanigans with his buddies on the beaches of Pensacola, or going to New Orleans, or Biloxi, or Austin, or San Antonio, or Key West or San Diego, or... His job is to take care of himself and learn to fly. He gets to do that for 2-3 years before having to learn about the ground job stuff that keeps a military unit functioning from day to day.
By the time you think you're ready to leave the military as a pilot, your commitment will be up fairly soon.
I won't lie- everyone here has had a "this really sucks" time in the military. Going somewhere you don't want to go, working for someone you don't want to work for. But it changes, it's not permanent, and they paid you to fly. They paid you to do something they make blockbuster movies about. That's pretty cool.
Read what I wrote above. You aren't restricted to a liberty radius when you're on leave, and the liberty radiuses are pretty easy- basically they are how far/long can you reasonably drive for the amount of days that you have off. I would regularly drive 3-4 hours on the weekend to spend with family/friends. It was an easy after work drive on Friday (wife had car and dogs packed up when I got home) and we'd be home Sunday evening- and we'd swap driving 1/2 way through each trip. You can get liberty passes to extend that. You just have to have a good plan. TBH, the folks who try to do more on the civilian side are the ones who die in a wreck because they fell asleep.
Also- in the civilian world what company doesn't want you to live near them? If you get hired by them, you're moving. So you make the choice that you either want to do what you want to do or live where you want to live. Moving around the country isn't that big of a deal, and orders are 2, maybe 3 years. You'll be busy enough and have enough friends that the time will go by fairly quickly, and you'll figure out the fun stuff to do. The only people that are truly miserable in crummy towns are the people who didn't get out to do the stuff in those crummy towns.
I can't say I ever felt particularly stifled by the USN. I never had leave denied and I never had problems with liberty. It there was a radius it was so liberal as to not be a factor and just about everyone I worked for was good with the occasional 3 day weekend to save on leave if your quals and job were in order.
Also at no point did I ever lack for a challenge. I had lots of varied jobs and each one kept me busy and did a good job in preparing me for the next step. When I was young and didn't have kids I remember thinking I had a great gig because the USN kept moving me around to all sorts of great places like Monterey, Pcola, Norfolk (not said sarcastically), and Japan. My wife only ever hated one duty station but we live there full time now as civilians so life is funny sometimes.
I think the part that can end up feeling stifling is the career path sometime around the end of your shore tour. At that point a lot of guys want to keep flying or go do something else but the man says you should go to another job that you have no interest in. Sometimes the man is right, I did what was expected of me like a good Naval Officer and went to the stupid boat and it was one of my best tours. Again, sometimes life surprises you and has a way of reminding you that you don't know what you don't know.
But that said, just about every career field has a career path to it and there's not a lot of places I can think of where you get to rise to the top by doing whatever you want and not thinking about career progression.
Also at no point did I ever lack for a challenge. I had lots of varied jobs and each one kept me busy and did a good job in preparing me for the next step. When I was young and didn't have kids I remember thinking I had a great gig because the USN kept moving me around to all sorts of great places like Monterey, Pcola, Norfolk (not said sarcastically), and Japan. My wife only ever hated one duty station but we live there full time now as civilians so life is funny sometimes.
I think the part that can end up feeling stifling is the career path sometime around the end of your shore tour. At that point a lot of guys want to keep flying or go do something else but the man says you should go to another job that you have no interest in. Sometimes the man is right, I did what was expected of me like a good Naval Officer and went to the stupid boat and it was one of my best tours. Again, sometimes life surprises you and has a way of reminding you that you don't know what you don't know.
But that said, just about every career field has a career path to it and there's not a lot of places I can think of where you get to rise to the top by doing whatever you want and not thinking about career progression.
It sounds like a miscommunication, based on your reply to rob. I agree you can't just decide you want a promotion one day, and I was talking about one's ability to move laterally or to different companies. It sounds like you understand that's commonplace in the civilian sector, so we're on the same page.
Agreed generally, but a couple counter-points for those making career decisions to consider...
-I've had 3 leave chits denied in the last 6 months. I've also been unable to even submit a leave chit for probably 50+% of my time in the Navy, due to workups, deployment, being in the middle of a semester at NPS, having an inspection or something coming up, etc etc. I love taking trips, and have been fortunate to take trips all over the world on leave, so it's not all bad. But I currently have over 80 days of leave saved up and the lowest that number has been in years was probably 40, and it's not because I'm trying to save them.
-Not everyone wants to endlessly progress in their career. Not everyone wants to "rise to the top". Some people just want to fly. If that's you, then the Navy will be a frustrating place late in your initial commitment. But you're right that at that point you are close to being able to just get out anyway.
Sometimes you can do both. In my 31 year career thus far, I've only had three non-flying tours, and two of those were academic tours (college and NWC). My next tour, as base CO, will be my 8th set of flying orders. YMMV.
I've been fortunate I suppose- outside of workups or deployment (where I didn't ask, just planned around) I have never had leave denied. I've had more than one CO have a leave policy that followed the guidelines of "you don't rate liberty, but you rate leave". One also had the policy that the squadron/shop/flight schedule should be able to continue to operate without you, no matter what is going on. If you wanted to take leave during an inspection, go for it. But you were held accountable for the results no matter who you left in charge.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
no you’re completely right. Was just simply pointing out the main difference.
The Navy was absolutely great for me. Even with the bad days I found good in it.
The amount you get paid as a fresh out of college graduate is way more then anywhere else except for maybe investment banks.
There’s gonna be days that absolutely suck as a civilian too. And there’s going to be days that absolutely suck regardless of if you have money or work.
OP just keep an open mind. Workout and find some hobbies.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
what you mean?
As a civilian I can go look for work in my field and move jobs within 30 days if I wanted too…
edit: I see what you mean. Ya not everyone can just promote in their field. That’s true.
There are quite of bit of people in certain industries who stay at companies for QOL and can easily promote to much higher pay if they’re inclined. Not everyone but a good amount depending on industry
If you just want to fly at the working level then the USN is not for you past your initial commitment and that's ok. As others on this board have found out there are lots of ways you can keep flying grey airplanes for Uncle Sam as a line dog but in most cases it's just not for the USN and instead things like USNR, USAFR, ANG, NG, etc. And if flying for your Uncle isn't your thing there nothing wrong with getting out and flying on the civilian street in whatever form you like.
Your experience is your own wrt leave but there are also plenty of times in the civilian world where you can't take time off such as teachers during the school year, lawyers during a trial, etc that are analogous to deployment and inspections.
It only depends on how much money you’re willing to spend and how ugly you’re willing to go…
SELRES_AMDO
Well-Known Member
Why do they not have the freedom to do these things?
At the end of the day you can walk out the door and never come back if you feel like it without the threat of jail.
That wasn’t the point I was making. Read the subsequent posts.