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Is this a common feeling

poseidon69$$$

New Member
About to start up my fleet tour and just not feeling satisfied with the Naval Aviation experience so far. Earning the wings of gold was the proudest moment of my life, however I simply feel disenfranchised with my job and the Navy in general. I understand sacrifice is necessary in what we do but the inability to travel, do what I want with my family, putting up with toxic leadership and the looming potential of 7 more years of this same feeling all have me down. It doesn’t help that I see my civilian counterparts doing well for themselves in the airlines and other career paths with seemingly way less stress and higher quality of life. Did anyone else feel the same at this point in their career? If so, how did you deal with it/does it get better?
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Define disenfranchised. You're not in charge. What were you expecting as an entry level employee? You won't have a real say until you've been in this organization for 20 years. Why can't you travel? Of course you can travel - that's bizarre. Please elaborate. Who are the toxic leaders you're referring to? What aspect of their leadership do you find toxic? Who are these care-free civilian counterparts to speak of? If you wanted a career in the airlines, why are you in the military?

I'll end by asking, once more, what were you expecting and how does that differ from your reality?
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Assuming you are just finishing the FRS based on your post; what toxic leadership have you had? Your only expectation was show up prepared and ready to fly. I would have a hard time if you told me that all of your IPs have been "toxic" to this point. If you're referring to the last year of COVID and the decisions regarding restrictions over that time, well, hopefully that's all past us.

I can't say I felt that way in your shoes - I was super excited finishing the FRS - apprehensive about having my first division, having to earn a lot more tactical quals, and starting a workup cycle, but very excited.

Did you come in with a lot of aviation experience? What makes you think your airline "peers" have any more freedom than you (as an entry level pilot)? As a new guy, they are waiting at least a couple months to get a line, then they are effectively living and dying by the schedule, similar to you. Don't get me wrong, I think there is tremendous upside to the airlines, but they have to show up to work on time too. But if you didn't already come into the Navy with a ton of aviation experience, you can safely assume those guys also took on a lot more debt to get to where they are than you did.

What expectations did not meet reality? For me, there was some mismatch, but it had to do with educational and career opportunities and just not realizing how many rules govern safe flying, not leadership expecations, liberty expectations, etc. I was also genuinely happy for my peers who were doing well for themselves, and was happy to note that the opportunities I got outweighed the benefits they got, for me at that time in my life (adventure, travel to some awesome port calls, a meaningful deployment, a built in group of awesome friends, the impact I was able to have on my Sailors as their DIVO, a stable income, TSP, a pension if I stayed long enough, etc.). I also have genuinely enjoyed almost everywhere I have been stationed, and have taken the attitude of "if people live here, they must have something fun to do." As a result, I have hiked parts of the Rockies and volcanoes in Hawaii, surfed (successfully) in Hawaii, swam with turtles, swam over the deepest part of the ocean, gone skiing in Japan (poorly), found beauty in the deserts of the United States, tried all sorts of spices in the Middle East and Asia, made friends with people from all over the world, sang "Waltzing Matilda" in many bars in Australia in an attempt to have beers bought for me (worked most of the time!), done rock climbing, got into spin classes and other various fitness classes, drank all sorts of craft beer and locally produced wine, learned more about Islam, Buddhism, and Shinto than I ever imagined I would, and so much more - and I realize that at least this collection of diverse activities are not ones that my civilian counterparts are having - and certainly not as spontaneously as they seem to happy in Navy life.
 
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croakerfish

Well-Known Member
pilot
About to start up my fleet tour and just not feeling satisfied with the Naval Aviation experience so far. Earning the wings of gold was the proudest moment of my life, however I simply feel disenfranchised with my job and the Navy in general. I understand sacrifice is necessary in what we do but the inability to travel, do what I want with my family, putting up with toxic leadership and the looming potential of 7 more years of this same feeling all have me down. It doesn’t help that I see my civilian counterparts doing well for themselves in the airlines and other career paths with seemingly way less stress and higher quality of life. Did anyone else feel the same at this point in their career? If so, how did you deal with it/does it get better?

COVID ruined a huge chunk of your experience so far. There are plenty of shit leaders in the military no question, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that’s better anywhere else.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
I remember feeling a little let down in some ways my first couple of months as the FNG, but it got a lot better. In my case, it was due to non-combat flight hours being shut off for about three months, most of that on the boat, so I couldn't fly or train. In your case, I suspect it is due to COVID restrictions, and morale being so low after the ridiculousness of 2020. Stick with it, morale can take some time to recover.

Expectations vs. reality: People talk up Naval Aviation a lot, and for good reason, but it can set artificially high expectations. The daily grind is hard quite a lot of the time. If you're where I think you are in your career, you're coming from study/fly/play/sleep to work/work/study/work/fly/work/sleep. You can adapt to the workload, and it'll all be worth it as you rack up time and quals. The people you'll meet, and the flying you'll do are like nothing else in the world. Forge those connections, and focus on being the best pilot, the best officer, and the best peer you can. Get out there and engage while you're at work! Have an outlet- keep working out, or whatever helps you relieve work stress. Keep a good attitude and recognize it's not "the man" trying to keep you down, most people are just doing the best they can from their own perspective. The ones that aren't are pretty obvious.

One final thought. If you find you're not able to modulate negative feelings, talk to someone you can trust outside the organization. Counselor, pastor, etc. If you think you might need to do this, get after it early- it won't be easier later on. Only you can decide if you're at that point, but there is no shame in seeking help. It doesn't have to end your career. Having a conversation with a trusted & unbiased 3rd party can make a HUGE difference- and internet forums don't count.

My guess is, you're just coming out of flight school and meeting the realities of the fleet. Welcome to the big show. You've got to work for the reward. Hang in there, everything is going to be fine.
 
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MGoBrew11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Stick it out man. It gets FUN in the fleet, especially once you are all qual’d up. The earlier you get your quals, the better. You won’t be studying for every event anymore and you’ll feel much more like a professional pilot. Show up to work, fly, go home.
 

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
About to start up my fleet tour and just not feeling satisfied with the Naval Aviation experience so far. Earning the wings of gold was the proudest moment of my life, however I simply feel disenfranchised with my job and the Navy in general. I understand sacrifice is necessary in what we do but the inability to travel, do what I want with my family, putting up with toxic leadership and the looming potential of 7 more years of this same feeling all have me down. It doesn’t help that I see my civilian counterparts doing well for themselves in the airlines and other career paths with seemingly way less stress and higher quality of life. Did anyone else feel the same at this point in their career? If so, how did you deal with it/does it get better?

Every unit in the DoD is suffering from the COVID meltdown. Every civilian sector job out there is suffering from the COVID meltdown. The population is burned out. My counselor has seen a giant uptake in clients in the last year.

You probably didn't have the same flight school/FRS experience as everyone else here. That really sucks.

But it has to end, and the pendulum will swing the other way eventually.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
What makes you think your airline "peers" have any more freedom than you (as an entry level pilot)? As a new guy, they are waiting at least a couple months to get a line, then they are effectively living and dying by the schedule, similar to you.
Worst case, if they have bad timing then they're stuck on reserve for the last year or more, playing standby roulette at their home airport to commute to their base the day before they're on call. Hang out in a crashpad (which has a lot of the negative attributes of boat life in a JO jungle stateroom) with a bunch of dudes you sort of like but don't really know, maybe getting called or maybe not, maybe getting a few scraps of flight time, getting called to cover the flights where somebody banged out "sick" because the show time is ridiculously early/captain is a difficult person/overnight city has a dumpy hotel... maybe they get called for what looks like a really nice trip but a few legs in, just as things start getting fun, the line holder shows up at the gate and takes their trip back because they're not sick anymore. And back to the crashpad for you!!

The grass isn't always greener.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
Need more info to help, e.g., how big is the family? What’s your aviation experience?

does it get better?
Yes.

Well, probably. Somebody has to be the exception that proves the rule, but...

My first 4-5 months of the fleet tour were tolerable. I joined a well-oiled machine as a not-well-oiled FNG, and it took me a bit to learn to just shut up and show up. It’s not just an adventure, it’s a job. Somebody’s got to collect those pee samples.

I had wings. They had wings and experience. That’s a big gap, but this is the last time in your career you’ll not have that. After the first tour, no matter what you do or where you go, what new airplane you fly, etc., you'll have experience.

You will get firehosed with knowledge and culture. It will change you. The experiences you will have in a single tour will give you a lifetime of “there I was” stories for the bar, and it will go by so damn fast. A blink of an eye.

Naval Air gives you the chance to develop mastery of something very difficult and dangerous to do, and there is no greater feeling than mastery. Put your attention on that, and endure the rest if you must.

Before you know it you’ll be a senior LT able to employ his or her platform with skill and precision that will bring tears to the eyes of America’s citizenry.

But not yet. Be patient, you’ll get there.
 

Ektar

Brewing Pilot
pilot
Heading to my fleet squadron I was a lot of things, but definitely not feeling unsatisfied. I was nervous, excited, a bit intimidated, but most importantly I was open to new experiences and had the goal of making the best of what was put in front of me.

Yes, this job can be difficult on you and your spouse/family. Does it create stress, yes. Does it create hardship from time to time, yes.

However, you will come away with a set of skills and experiences that no one can take away from you. What you do with those skills and experiences is up to you.

Last as a good friend of mine put it: the two keys to success in the Navy are effort and attitude. Put in the effort and have a good attitude and you will achieve the success you want.

G'luck and I hope your outlook improves.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
About to start up my fleet tour and just not feeling satisfied with the Naval Aviation experience so far. Earning the wings of gold was the proudest moment of my life, however I simply feel disenfranchised with my job and the Navy in general. I understand sacrifice is necessary in what we do but the inability to travel, do what I want with my family, putting up with toxic leadership and the looming potential of 7 more years of this same feeling all have me down. It doesn’t help that I see my civilian counterparts doing well for themselves in the airlines and other career paths with seemingly way less stress and higher quality of life. Did anyone else feel the same at this point in their career? If so, how did you deal with it/does it get better?

It happens sometimes. There’s usually one or two in large ready rooms that feel that way. My guess is that Covid exacerbated the events s that spark your feelings. The fleet might be better for you, where you feel you’re working towards something tangible (qualms and deployment).

I’m a pretty pro airline guy now but I’ll say that last year wasn’t a cake walk on the outside. Sure, anyone who saw my social media saw the six vacations that I took in 2020 and the great times I had on them.

What they didn’t see was me flying 2 legs in six months and becoming disqual’d, me worried about being able to afford my mortgage if I lost my job, or got downgraded, dealing with tenants not paying rent, a family member spending 3 months in the hospital, friends who did lose their jobs and me using every connection I had to try to get them a job so they could pay their bills but having no luck, or my friends who did have stable jobs offer to take in others into their homes who lost income sources. Etc etc etc.

Give the fleet a chance to let you find it rewarding. You may find you like it more than you expected. If not, keep it to yourself and work towards the flying orders on your shore tour and show up to the boat and submit your resignation on your first day of your disassociated sea tour.
 

RedFive

Well-Known Member
pilot
None
Contributor
What makes you think your airline "peers" have any more freedom than you (as an entry level pilot)? As a new guy, they are waiting at least a couple months to get a line, then they are effectively living and dying by the schedule, similar to you.
@Jim123 makes good points about crashpad life, but I wouldn't say airline pilots are living and dying by the schedule. If you don't like a trip, there's a multitude of ways to get it off your schedule. Hell, you can bid avoid people you don't like flying with -- not super easy to do in the military. As for getting a line, senior guys will purposely bid for reserve so they can sit at home and play Xbox. Overall it's pretty relaxed bro. I mean, we "brief" in the aircraft. I've heard FedEx guys get up after level off and change into their sweatpants and hoodies so they can be more comfortable watching their movies. Freedom? I don't have to ask my airline for permission to go on a road trip. We don't worry about work at home. There's no 2am phone calls from Sailors in jail in Tijuana. I'm not saying it's some perfect career path nor do I ever regret my Navy/AF aviation experiences, but (COVID notwithstanding) there's a real reason DOD has an aviator retention problem. I just jump seated with an F-15 guy and his FO, an A-6 turned A-10 guy.....those guys are fucking loving the shit out of what they do.
 

Python

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Assuming you are just finishing the FRS based on your post; what toxic leadership have you had? Your only expectation was show up prepared and ready to fly. I would have a hard time if you told me that all of your IPs have been "toxic" to this point. If you're referring to the last year of COVID and the decisions regarding restrictions over that time, well, hopefully that's all past us.

I can't say I felt that way in your shoes - I was super excited finishing the FRS - apprehensive about having my first division, having to earn a lot more tactical quals, and starting a workup cycle, but very excited.

Did you come in with a lot of aviation experience? What makes you think your airline "peers" have any more freedom than you (as an entry level pilot)? As a new guy, they are waiting at least a couple months to get a line, then they are effectively living and dying by the schedule, similar to you. Don't get me wrong, I think there is tremendous upside to the airlines, but they have to show up to work on time too. But if you didn't already come into the Navy with a ton of aviation experience, you can safely assume those guys also took on a lot more debt to get to where they are than you did.

What expectations did not meet reality? For me, there was some mismatch, but it had to do with educational and career opportunities and just not realizing how many rules govern safe flying, not leadership expecations, liberty expectations, etc. I was also genuinely happy for my peers who were doing well for themselves, and was happy to note that the opportunities I got outweighed the benefits they got, for me at that time in my life (adventure, travel to some awesome port calls, a meaningful deployment, a built in group of awesome friends, the impact I was able to have on my Sailors as their DIVO, a stable income, TSP, a pension if I stayed long enough, etc.). I also have genuinely enjoyed almost everywhere I have been stationed, and have taken the attitude of "if people live here, they must have something fun to do." As a result, I have hiked parts of the Rockies and volcanoes in Hawaii, surfed (successfully) in Hawaii, swam with turtles, swam over the deepest part of the ocean, gone skiing in Japan (poorly), found beauty in the deserts of the United States, tried all sorts of spices in the Middle East and Asia, made friends with people from all over the world, sang "Waltzing Matilda" in many bars in Australia in an attempt to have beers bought for me (worked most of the time!), done rock climbing, got into spin classes and other various fitness classes, drank all sorts of craft beer and locally produced wine, learned more about Islam, Buddhism, and Shinto than I ever imagined I would, and so much more - and I realize that at least this collection of diverse activities are not ones that my civilian counterparts are having - and certainly not as spontaneously as they seem to happy in Navy life.

Have to agree with @RedFive . The freedom levels are absolutely in different universes. Yes you have to do a job, of course. But besides that….you’re free. Really, it’s just fly the plane. No “real” brief. No debrief. No ground job or collaterals. No filling out post flight paperwork (the jet does that for you VSI datalink). Drop trips. Trade trips. Sit at home on reserve and get paid to stay sober and not work if they don’t call. Go on vacation any time. Grow your hair out to some degree. No PRT, mandatory fun, evals to write, or anything. Bring your family on one of your good trips and now you have a vacation provided by work.

As far as being a new guy, reserve for a couple months, then a line for the next couple decades. The flexibility is great. As stated several times, the job isn’t perfect, and was really bad in 2020. But let’s not draw any false equivalencies about levels of freedom.

To the OP I will echo what others said and I do believe it will get better for you when you hit the fleet.
 
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