SELRES_AMDO
Well-Known Member
They're obligated to inform their employer when they will miss work. They are not obligated to tell the hiring manager they are reservists during the hiring process.
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Highwater FITREP Burden
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I think I see the disconnect. I am not allowed to ask a reservist something like "Are you going to be deployed in the next (X-number) of years?" This is because USERRA protects potential employees from potential discrimination BUT an employer can not discriminate against an employee if they are unaware of their reserve obligations.
We won't see eye to eye on this but I'll make it simple. If you are a reservist and say so your rights are firmly and fully protected and I am an ardent believer in that. If you try to hide it and I find out (which I will when I see the OF) I am gong to ask you why you lied. Put on top of that - I have never, ever, in any way seen a military reservist try to hide that fact from a potential fedweral employer. That would be like shooting yourself in the head during the process - why would you do it? What is the possible reason? Moreover, reserve duty can count for veteran status and veteran status makes you climb up the cert.
SELRES_AMDO
Well-Known Member
I'm in agreement with you for the most part.
If you are asked about your reserve status then tell the truth. Lying is wrong and I hate being lied to by people who work for me. That being said, you don't have to voluntarily disclose your reservist status to anyone during the hiring process.
I've been interviewed for over 30 federal positions (promotions and when I was trying to get my first fed job). No one ever asked me about my reserve status in any interview or the onboarding process. Similarly, I've sat on more hiring panels than I can remember and never considered asking about someone's status. HR makes it very clear that you should only ask questions relevant to the job's duties.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
The hiring panels I sat when I was a GS-13 never once allowed me to deviate from the structured questions that HR had approved.
I def wouldn’t lie if they asked the question. But I wouldn’t volunteer that information either.
And like I said the pay band of 120-150k is extremely competitive, why volunteer anything more?
I’m unsure how you’d legally let someone go for not disclosing it in the feds. USERRA protection is pretty clear on that.
I def wouldn’t lie if they asked the question. But I wouldn’t volunteer that information either.
And like I said the pay band of 120-150k is extremely competitive, why volunteer anything more?
I’m unsure how you’d legally let someone go for not disclosing it in the feds. USERRA protection is pretty clear on that.
I understand what you are saying, but in the case of this conversation we seem to be confusing asking with knowing or discovering. You are right, I can not ask someone's reserve status just like I can't ask a Mormon about their religious obligations - but I can ask, generically, about their availability to actually do the job. Fun fact - I can actually ask a reserve commander if they can reschedule a training event or period of active duty for work purposes. I've only done it once and the guy agreed!
I'm in that pay band and I recruited close to it. If you don't lie and I don't ask inappropriate questions then we are all good.
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
I always liked that perk cause my boss was cool and if the reserves was getting nutty with dumb stuff (as they often did) I asked my boss if he’d have my back if I told them my boss wanted me to resked
nodropinufaka
Well-Known Member
You’re also allowed to request mobilizations be canceled for individuals if you can make a case they’re more valuable to the govt in their current position.
Tranquilo, hermanos. There is a middle ground here that I think satisfies most concerns.
For private sector jobs, including DoD contractors:
You must answer all questionnaires and interview questions truthfully. But your resume itself can include or omit whatever you want, so long as you aren’t making stuff up. You don’t have to list your side bartending gig, you don’t have to list that you sell crafts on Etsy, you don’t have to include your reserve job. It’s a resume not an SF-86. I’ve reviewed hundreds of resumes in the past 10+ years and the format can be whatever Millennial jobseeker Josie/Josh wants it to be (I’ve seen some wild ones).
After you get the official written offer letter for a new job, but before your start date with the new company, that’s a good time to let your recruiter or HR office know if you are a SELRES or VTU reservist (or really any secondary employment, as most employers require you to submit and get approval on secondary employment IAW their HR policies). Lots of states are “right to work” states and you don’t want to be arguing in court about getting your job back while you’re out of a job. No sense hiding or delaying the inevitable truth from your future employer. If they choose to rescind the offer letter before your start date, and the only reason is your newly disclosed reservist obligations, call your attorney.
For government jobs, in my experience (and I do have some as a former lowly GS) the USAJOBS application forms are pretty thorough, meaning you’ll probably be asked if you are in the military in any capacity. Be honest to the extent you are asked about SELRES or VTU obligations.
I think there is a fair argument to be made that you’ll never be docked for omitting that you’re in the non-VTU part of the IRR (assuming you aren’t actively planning to jump on ADOS orders or reaffiliate with the SELRES from the IRR). That’s like omitting the fact that you registered for the SSS and are theoretically eligible to be drafted in event Congress reinstates the draft and then starts calling lotto numbers. There is probably a bunch of case law on that from the Vietnam era and employers/draftees.
For private sector jobs, including DoD contractors:
You must answer all questionnaires and interview questions truthfully. But your resume itself can include or omit whatever you want, so long as you aren’t making stuff up. You don’t have to list your side bartending gig, you don’t have to list that you sell crafts on Etsy, you don’t have to include your reserve job. It’s a resume not an SF-86. I’ve reviewed hundreds of resumes in the past 10+ years and the format can be whatever Millennial jobseeker Josie/Josh wants it to be (I’ve seen some wild ones).
After you get the official written offer letter for a new job, but before your start date with the new company, that’s a good time to let your recruiter or HR office know if you are a SELRES or VTU reservist (or really any secondary employment, as most employers require you to submit and get approval on secondary employment IAW their HR policies). Lots of states are “right to work” states and you don’t want to be arguing in court about getting your job back while you’re out of a job. No sense hiding or delaying the inevitable truth from your future employer. If they choose to rescind the offer letter before your start date, and the only reason is your newly disclosed reservist obligations, call your attorney.
For government jobs, in my experience (and I do have some as a former lowly GS) the USAJOBS application forms are pretty thorough, meaning you’ll probably be asked if you are in the military in any capacity. Be honest to the extent you are asked about SELRES or VTU obligations.
I think there is a fair argument to be made that you’ll never be docked for omitting that you’re in the non-VTU part of the IRR (assuming you aren’t actively planning to jump on ADOS orders or reaffiliate with the SELRES from the IRR). That’s like omitting the fact that you registered for the SSS and are theoretically eligible to be drafted in event Congress reinstates the draft and then starts calling lotto numbers. There is probably a bunch of case law on that from the Vietnam era and employers/draftees.
I’ve seen this happen, but only with govt civilians. Most contractor companies are told to pound sand if they decide to play that card (bc the SOW would have to state that the govt considers the contract employees to be mission essential staff).
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
This is on the Amazon application, FYI from a recruiter I talked to if a person selects the last option it is generally assumed it is a yes.
- it's Amazon
- firms can ask if you're pregnant, too - it's a very bad idea since there's no legal way to use that information, so collecting it implies illegal discriminatory behavior.
#SideBar.... Why in gods name would you want to work for Amazon? ? The place is a toxic waste dump.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
I know, it is hit and miss, crazy thing is I know 2 people that have now gone to Amazon from Boeing and they say the work environment and quality of life is now much better, both were long term Boeing employees that said in the past 2 years Boeing went to hell.
There are many companies where if you are in recruiting doing time at Amazon gives you an edge because they know if you can be successful there you can survive just about anywhere.