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Help for Nuke son

cj62

New Member
I first want to apologize if I am on this site for the wrong reasons, but when I typed in a question into my search engine, this site popped up.

I am the mom of a son that is in the Nuke program in Goose Creek, SC. He is uner so much stress and on the verge of flunking out. He loves the Navy and wants to continue to be a sailor and to serve. However, he feels he would be best suited elsewhere. He is being told there is nothing they can do....he is stuck in the Nuke program or will be sent home. I've read some of the other forums here and that doesn't seem to be the truth. Can anyone here help me to tell him what he needs to do?

I can honestly say I am a little disappointed in the Navy. They take an 18 year old and throw money at them and tell them of the glorious Nuke life and get them to go the Nuke route. My son only passed the Nuke testing by a few points. Does the Navy really want people in that program that can only scrape by the skin of their teeth? Anyway, bottom line...I'm just here looking for some help
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
hmmmm. I'm not a nuke, but i am someone who made big decisions when i was your son's age and quickly learned that there are consequences for those decisions - particularly when your decisions involve raising your hand or signing an employment contract.

I can honestly say I am a little disappointed in the Navy. They take an 18 year old and throw money at them and tell them of the glorious Nuke life and get them to go the Nuke route.

They "take" 18 years olds everyday and throw money at them to enlist - but don't forget for a second that its still an all volunteer force. Did your son do his OWN due diligence and investigate the nuke community? Did he seek out existing nuke Sailors and get their opinions? Or did he do it for the cash grab?

My son only passed the Nuke testing by a few points. Does the Navy really want people in that program that can only scrape by the skin of their teeth?

Standards are standards and passing is passing. If your son passed the test then it most likely implies he has the ABILITY to pass the course if he puts forth the requisite amount of effort. The level of effort for each student is different and this might mean that your son needs to put in more time studying or with tutors. Nuke school is supposed to be HARD because he's going to be put into positions of responsibility at a very young age that many of his peers won't be - the school is hard for a reason.

I can certainly understand your concern for your son, however there is a fine line between encouraging your son to be accountable for his decisions and this.
 

cj62

New Member
I can tell you he did not seek out other sailors to investigate the Nuke program. He believed in his recruiter. I am encouraging him to stay. I honestly think he should "man up" and just handle it. However, if he can't make it and will flunk out and get sent home, I would rather he transfer to another division. He wanted to be in the Navy, and yes he volunteered, but you know as well as I do(now I know)... that recruiters will lie to get their quotas. As a mom I just want him to succeed. He wanted to be in the military for as long as I can remember, so no it wasn't a money thing per se. But I don't know a teenager alive who says no if someone is telling them how great and easy something is and all the money they will make. Unfortunately parents are not allowed in these mewtings with the recruitwr once they turn 18. I wasn't anyway. Honestly, I want him to just stick it out, but not at the risk of a general discharge and being sent home. I'd rather he transfer if possible before that happens. Just seeking advice of if he can do that. Trust me this whole situation has made me literally sick and I'm not an overbearing mother. My son has always been independent and successful in all his endeavors until now. And, I don't believe there is any shame in not being able to "hack" the Nuke program. Not everyone is cut out for it. As a matter of fact the attempt of suicide there is prevalant. One more tried just last week and another was sent home after admitting to being depressed. I know those are used as excuses sometimes, but it also frightens me....as a mom. Also, he has the lowest gpa in his class and has no liberty and has to study at the facility no less than 4 hours a night....sometimes until midnight. So he is doing all the studying he can fit into one day along with his other obligations.
 

EM1toNFO

Killing insurgents with my 'messages'!!
None
As a prior Nuke, and a former nuclear recruiter, I can reiterate that if he passed the requisite testing then he DOES have what it takes to succeed. Everyone must find out what they are made of and what they personally need to do to cope with stress and what to do in order to succeed. Unfortunately, I doubt that there aren't very many if any job slots open (based on old knowledge and the current state of recruiting). If he's truly struggling, then he should definitely be staying late and asking for one-on-one instructor time for the more difficult concepts. The 1.5 years in the Nuclear Power Pipeline is time that sets you up for not only while you are in the Navy, but also for whatever else you want to do in life. After this, everything academic will seems like clown training! While he may not have any personal time or a life currently, the light at the end of the tunnel is definitely very bright!! I hope he pulls through! :)
 

cj62

New Member
Thank you for the encouragaing words. He is staying late to study and getting one on one help. I have told him over and over to hang in there....things will get better. But how do I encourage him when the folks there are telling him they will send him home? He is constantly told that and it may be a ploy to get him to try harder, but the stress it is causing is really being a hazard to him trying harder. Maybe things aren't as bad as I perceive them to be....I am not there. It's vry difficult for me as amom to hear the anxiety in his voice. He doesn't want to be sent home. We are just trying to figure out an option if he does flunk out. Thanks again.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
I was a nuke before I became an officer and spent my time in Goose Creek just like he is now, I can still remember that place like it was yesterday!

The Navy sets the minimum gpa and if he makes it, then he's good. It doesn't matter if he's the #1 guy or the dead last in his class, if he makes the minimum score he passes. Also, the recruiters do have quotas to fill but to make the minimums required for entry into the nuke program means your son isn't a slack.

What is his gpa, i.e., how close is he to flunking out? I would imagine he's on mandatory study and if his gpa is that low then it's probably 30/5 right? (unless it's changed since I was there). If he's not on the max required study hours and he's close to flunking, he needs to spend every waking minute in that schoolhouse. Nuke school isn't easy, I remember guys who would finish the regular class day, go workout, go back to study till dinner, eat, then go study till about midnight. It sucked for them but they made it through.

Honestly, I can't remember one guy who flunked out who actually worked their butt off. The guys I saw go home got kicked out for being stupid, i.e., going ua or theft, or they got sent home for having low grades and not putting in the required effort. The resources available at that school to pass are immense and the instructors will put in the work to help him pass if he does his part.

Nuke school isn't easy and honestly for some it's a huge kick in the nuts. I suspect your son may be getting that kick right now.

If you or your son have more questions or want to chat offline shoot me a pm.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I as an officer recruiter and nuke agree with all the prior nukes above, if you work you butt off you will pass, and I saw several who blew away the nuke test who failed out because they didn't give it their all, but nearly all of those who I saw leave the program were due to discipline problems. I can tell you I was in the exact same situation as your son, I passed nuke school on my final exams and I had NO LIFE when I was there, 4 hours a day studing is nothing I was on mando 45 hours per week, I was failing up to the final exam point and have gone on to have a great career, I excelled at the hands on portion.

There are few jobs open to enlisted in the Navy right now many are waiting for jobs to open up and recruiters who lie don't last long, they go home, enlisted recruiters are to talk about being in the Navy, not sell jobs, the nuke recruiter will talk about the program and they are nukes but everybody's experience at nuke school is different, I knew guys that never studied and were top of their class!
 

KilroyUSN

Prior EM1(SS) - LTJG - VP P-8 NFO COTAC
None
Just to clarify the whole enlisted recruiter aspect, it may be area dependent, but recruiters met their quota faster when they recruited a nuke vice a non-nuke, and to be honest I was only contacted once by the "nuke recruiter" who called me and asked if I had any questions, didn't really answer any of my questions, and that was the last I heard from him. This may be different in other districts and now that we are "downsizing". To the OP, most recruits in nuke school had a physics and/or chemistry class in high school, which I did not, this made it a pretty sharp learning curve but it is not impossible, the minimum GPA in A-School (the first part of nuke school) is a 2.8 and I graduated with a 2.89. I really did not know how to study, not the level of memorizing that was required of me and I don't think I truly figured it out until near the end of A-School. Once he gets past A-School, the level of memorization versus conceptual understanding shifts and if your son is better and conceptualizing things and working hands on, he should do fine. Some food for thought, power school (the second part of nuke school) I graduated with a 3.6 and then graduated the third and last part of nuke school first in my class. Once in the fleet I excelled at my job and am now an officer in training. Hopefully this story will help him push through A-School and understand things will change in the future, if you or him have any questions or anything at all, do not hesitate to private message me.
 

Bevo16

Registered User
pilot
cj62,

Your son is where I was in 1997. I had walked into the recruiter's office saying that "I want to join the Navy." When asked what I wanted to do, I replied "What is the best you have?" I bought the recruiter's line about how the "best of the best" go into the nuke program. After hearing all of the promises about accelerated advancement and financial bonuses, I was sold. I did not have a strong math and physics background in high school, and I also only passed the test by a few points. Still, I was in and reported to Nuke School in September of 1996 back when it was still in Orlando. The gate guard was a former student who had flunked out and he knew we were fresh from boot camp. His "welcome to hell" as he checked each of our ID's was not exactly what we were expecting to hear, but was the most accurate thing I heard while I was on that base.

I was slated to go through MM "A" school first and did pretty well for the most part. All of my grades were around average, except for the 2nd Math test and the "Mechanical Equipment" final which was basically a thermodynamics primer. Still, I passed and went on to Power School. That is when things got really bad. I will tell you that the claims by some of my partners here that the only people who fail out are those that really aren't trying, are bullshit. Also the claim that anyone who get is in "has what it takes" to graduate is also bullshit. That program has a historic failure rate well over 60%. If everyone who shows up there really has what it takes to complete the course, then they must have the worst set of evaluation standards of any school in the world.

My grades were so bad that I didn't even get an academic review board at week 5. I was what was called an "auto-drop" and that was just fine by me. In spite of studying more than 50 hours a week AFTER class, I just could not keep up with the pace of the coursework. (I've since proven that I'm not stupid, being an Academic All-Big XII football player at Texas, and current Naval Officer, Aviator, and Aircraft Commander).

I know exactly how your son feels right now, and he is NOT stupid. He is being told now that if he fails out that he will spend the rest of his career chipping paint and cleaning bathrooms. That is not the case. Failing out of Nuke school does not mean that you are stupid or lazy, it means that you don't have the personality to be a nuke. 95% of the Navy views that as a GOOD THING!! Your son is a talented young man or he would not have gotten into Nuke School. Not completing that course is not the end of the world, his career, or his chances of success in the Navy.

After I flunked out, I went to submarine school in Groton, CT to be a conventional Machinist Mate. There, I took the SAT and the math that I had learned while in the process of flunking out of Nuke School enabled me to log a very impressive score on that exam. Before I knew it, I had letters of interest from the ROTC program, Naval Academy, BOOST and NAPS all in my mail box and I was filling out applications to officer programs like it was my full time job. I was fortunate to have another "nuke waste" officer take me under his wing and after I was accepted into the ROTC program at Texas, it was my full time job to help other sailors apply for officer programs. In just 7 months, I helped more than ten other nuke school "failures" get accepted into officer programs and they all picked up full scholarships.

If you or your son would like to talk with me about my experiences there, just send me a PM with phone numbers and I will will reach out to you or them.

My "drop sheet" from nuke school is in the same frame as my officer's commissioning documents. I keep it like that to show that one failure does not mean that you quit, or that others will quit on you. Sometimes a "failure" is just a fork in the road and you end up going down a much better path. My life is 1000X better now than it ever would have been if I had passed that school.

OBTW, my mom was just like you. She chewed the recruiter out for putting me into something that was such a poor fit for me just because he had a quota. Looking back, I don't blame him. She was also a high school teacher and always welcomed Navy Recruiters to talk in her class, on the condition that they were not allowed to mention the Nuclear Power Program at Louise High School. I do, however, blame the officers at Navy Recruiting Command who do such a poor job of allowing recruiters to explain what jobs in the Navy are like and what will be expected of them. The end result is a lot of trouble from struggling kids who are trying to do their best in positions that don't suit them. Many get bitter about the Navy and leave as soon as they can. Don't let him get bitter, encourage him to get BETTER. There is someone out there or at his next duty station that will help him as long as he is willing to help himself.
 

EM1toNFO

Killing insurgents with my 'messages'!!
None
FWIW the failure/drop rate is now around 10-15%. I was there in 2008 for a Nuke recruiter conference and that's the number they put out. You no longer have to take notes on a blank sheet. You "fill in" blanks in a workbook. It's much more of a pump vice filter, especially since it moved to Charleston, SC.
 

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
FWIW the failure/drop rate is now around 10-15%. I was there in 2008 for a Nuke recruiter conference and that's the number they put out. You no longer have to take notes on a blank sheet. You "fill in" blanks in a workbook. It's much more of a pump vice filter, especially since it moved to Charleston, SC.

When I was in the fleet not too long ago we would recieve briefs from the ECM on the cradle to grave status of the program, current vs historic, they have TONS of data, the biggest gripe currently is many are being pushed through that should be dropped due to discipline, nuke school is no longer a filter but a pump. Historically the average loss rate from start to qualified operator in the fleet is only about 20%, majority are losses due to discipline, now some were having academic troubles and did stupid things so the number isn't perfect.

I have known several people that didn't make it through nuke school, most did fine in the fleet, those that didn't had a chip on their shoulder.
 

cj62

New Member
Thank you for your kind reply. I do think it would help to for him to talk to someone. Not sure how to private message on here....can you let me know? Answering some of your questions his gpa is under 3.0. He has the lowest in his class and is about at the maxium hours for study time. I only have internet access if I go somewhere, so my replies may be sporadic. I did speak with him today and he is willing to talk to someone, but I would rather he didn't see this thread ....if you know what I mean. Thanks.
 

cj62

New Member
cj62,

Your son is where I was in 1997. I had walked into the recruiter's office saying that "I want to join the Navy." When asked what I wanted to do, I replied "What is the best you have?" I bought the recruiter's line about how the "best of the best" go into the nuke program. After hearing all of the promises about accelerated advancement and financial bonuses, I was sold. I did not have a strong math and physics background in high school, and I also only passed the test by a few points. Still, I was in and reported to Nuke School in September of 1996 back when it was still in Orlando. The gate guard was a former student who had flunked out and he knew we were fresh from boot camp. His "welcome to hell" as he checked each of our ID's was not exactly what we were expecting to hear, but was the most accurate thing I heard while I was on that base.

I was slated to go through MM "A" school first and did pretty well for the most part. All of my grades were around average, except for the 2nd Math test and the "Mechanical Equipment" final which was basically a thermodynamics primer. Still, I passed and went on to Power School. That is when things got really bad. I will tell you that the claims by some of my partners here that the only people who fail out are those that really aren't trying, are bullshit. Also the claim that anyone who get is in "has what it takes" to graduate is also bullshit. That program has a historic failure rate well over 60%. If everyone who shows up there really has what it takes to complete the course, then they must have the worst set of evaluation standards of any school in the world.

My grades were so bad that I didn't even get an academic review board at week 5. I was what was called an "auto-drop" and that was just fine by me. In spite of studying more than 50 hours a week AFTER class, I just could not keep up with the pace of the coursework. (I've since proven that I'm not stupid, being an Academic All-Big XII football player at Texas, and current Naval Officer, Aviator, and Aircraft Commander).

I know exactly how your son feels right now, and he is NOT stupid. He is being told now that if he fails out that he will spend the rest of his career chipping paint and cleaning bathrooms. That is not the case. Failing out of Nuke school does not mean that you are stupid or lazy, it means that you don't have the personality to be a nuke. 95% of the Navy views that as a GOOD THING!! Your son is a talented young man or he would not have gotten into Nuke School. Not completing that course is not the end of the world, his career, or his chances of success in the Navy.

After I flunked out, I went to submarine school in Groton, CT to be a conventional Machinist Mate. There, I took the SAT and the math that I had learned while in the process of flunking out of Nuke School enabled me to log a very impressive score on that exam. Before I knew it, I had letters of interest from the ROTC program, Naval Academy, BOOST and NAPS all in my mail box and I was filling out applications to officer programs like it was my full time job. I was fortunate to have another "nuke waste" officer take me under his wing and after I was accepted into the ROTC program at Texas, it was my full time job to help other sailors apply for officer programs. In just 7 months, I helped more than ten other nuke school "failures" get accepted into officer programs and they all picked up full scholarships.

If you or your son would like to talk with me about my experiences there, just send me a PM with phone numbers and I will will reach out to you or them.

My "drop sheet" from nuke school is in the same frame as my officer's commissioning documents. I keep it like that to show that one failure does not mean that you quit, or that others will quit on you. Sometimes a "failure" is just a fork in the road and you end up going down a much better path. My life is 1000X better now than it ever would have been if I had passed that school.

OBTW, my mom was just like you. She chewed the recruiter out for putting me into something that was such a poor fit for me just because he had a quota. Looking back, I don't blame him. She was also a high school teacher and always welcomed Navy Recruiters to talk in her class, on the condition that they were not allowed to mention the Nuclear Power Program at Louise High School. I do, however, blame the officers at Navy Recruiting Command who do such a poor job of allowing recruiters to explain what jobs in the Navy are like and what will be expected of them. The end result is a lot of trouble from struggling kids who are trying to do their best in positions that don't suit them. Many get bitter about the Navy and leave as soon as they can. Don't let him get bitter, encourage him to get BETTER. There is someone out there or at his next duty station that will help him as long as he is willing to help himself.
To Bevo16.....Thank you so much for making this mom feel 100% better!! Oh please...please just email me and I will give you my son's contact info. He really needs to talk to someone like you. My email is jillandthecats@yahoo.com. You don't know how much your post means to me. I had lost all hope and was preparing myself for him to come home. Look forward to hearing from you! Thanks again so much!!
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
...words...


Bevo, the a-school and power school taught in Orlando was a world of difference than what it is in Goose Creek. Not saying your experience doesn't matter, but the method of teaching and the instructor/student teaching relationship is much better and much different than what it was before.
 

BackOrdered

Well-Known Member
Contributor
To Bevo16.....Thank you so much for making this mom feel 100% better!! Oh please...please just email me and I will give you my son's contact info. He really needs to talk to someone like you. My email is jillandthecats@yahoo.com. You don't know how much your post means to me. I had lost all hope and was preparing myself for him to come home. Look forward to hearing from you! Thanks again so much!!

Glad to see this site gave you peace of mind, ma'am.
 
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