First flight of the P-8A Poseidon and all things related to transition

[Flugelman]

Which begs another question for the weiners: Are there more or less people planned for a P-8 squadron? I'd think less w/ the reduction of peeps in the cockpit and "automation." But I'm sure they can think of ways to add crew-creep.

I'd be betting on a lot less, what with the advent of "CMO" wing maintenance. Lots less admin, supply, and general gedunk support. I would think the Tube Rat count would be pretty close to what it is today. But what do I know, I've been away from it far too long.

 

[scoober78]

I'd be betting on a lot less, what with the advent of "CMO" wing maintenance. Lots less support.

Fixed....

 

[smittyrunr]

From the rumor mill... 3 squadrons in K-Bay if the local politicians get their way, otherwise split between Whidbey and Jax.

And Brunswick is pretty happy right now to be non-CMO. Starting to hear rumors that the higher-ups may be re-thinking that whole idea.

P-8 squadrons are supposed to be smaller- even without CMO and the lack of squadron maintenance, still fewer on the crew (no FEs).

 

[picklesuit]

From the rumor mill... 3 squadrons in K-Bay if the local politicians get their way, otherwise split between Whidbey and Jax.

And Brunswick is pretty happy right now to be non-CMO. Starting to hear rumors that the higher-ups may be re-thinking that whole idea.

P-8 squadrons are supposed to be smaller- even without CMO and the lack of squadron maintenance, still fewer on the crew (no FEs).

Really, no FE's? That sounds fucking stoopid to me. Those guys probably save more planes just with their SA from the middle seat. It is also nice having someone that really know the plane and its systems.

 

[Gatordev]

Yet amazingly every other aircraft in the fleet manages to stay aloft w/out FEs (except E-6s...maybe we're spotting a trend here).

 

[picklesuit]

Yet amazingly every other aircraft in the fleet manages to stay aloft w/out FEs (except E-6s...maybe we're spotting a trend here).

Yes, I bet you could really employ your helo skills well without a crew-chief back there...when was the last time you were part of a P-3 crew again?

 

[Gatordev]

I've flown a helo numerous times w/out a crewman in the back with no problem. And we're not talking about a P-3, we're talking about a P-8. Lighten' up Francis.

 

[Mumbles]

How is the Poseidon going to resemble the Orion in any way, shape, or form??
FEs were good for P-3s......They will be going the way of the dodo.

 

[zab1001]

Funny, the airlines have operated 737s without FEs for years. Weird.

 

[A4sForever]

Funny, the airlines have operated 737s without FEs for years. Weird.

I'm an F/E, among other things, but ALPA started to lose it's credibility w/ me (and many others) when it INSISTED that the 737 (like the 707, 720, 727, 747) NEEDED a F/E to "safely" complete the flight in civie street -- or mission in military terms, if you prefer.

Have any of you ever sat in the "F/E seat", a.k.a. the jumpseat, in a -37??? I have on several occasions ... even one time in the cockpit w/ an "aviation elite" such as the greatly overestimated "John N." (name witheld to "protect" the innocent ) ... and the "F/E" seat in a -37 is a sorry, sorry joke.

For military aircraft applications -- it's a non-starter. The -37 cockpit would have to be extensively redesigned to give it --and an F/E -- at least an even chance of being neccessary and/or credible.

The 737 does NOT need a F/E. Never did -- never will.

Believe it.

 

[picklesuit]

Roger. I will now shut up and color like a good nugget.

 

[xj220]

Out of curiosity, do the airlines really use FEs that much anymore? If so, are they only on the larger ones (47s, 77s) and are they pilots as well or purely FEs?

 

[Flash]

I am pretty certain that every airliner that has been designed since the 80's, probably the 70's, was designed for only two-pilot operation with no FE. The only FE's left are in legacy airliners like the first generation 747's.

 

[A4sForever]

I am pretty certain that every airliner that has been designed since the 80's, probably the 70's, was designed for only two-pilot operation with no FE. The only FE's left are in legacy airliners like the first generation 747's.

True story ... but:

The BEST raison d'être I have EVER seen for a Second Officer/Flight Engineer is another pair of eyes in the cockpit ... i.e., a safety observer.

It works; as many, many times the S/O or the jump-seat rider (a pretend S/O or F/E of sorts) was the first guy to pick up called and/or conflicting traffic.

That makes 'em worth their weight in fuel any day, anyway ...

Believe it.

 

[wink]

True story ... but:

The BEST raison d'être I have EVER seen for a Second Officer/Flight Engineer is another pair of eyes in the cockpit ... i.e., a safety observer.

It works; as many, many times the S/O or the jump-seat rider (a pretend S/O or F/E of sorts) was the first guy to pick up called and/or conflicting traffic.

That makes 'em worth their weight in fuel any day, anyway ...

Believe it.

I have heard it called the yard stick perspective (the jumpseat, FEs seat, or sim instructor's console are about 3 feet from the panel). Jump seat riders, FEs, sim instructors, check airmen, seems they always are seeing things the crew over looks. I just got back from recurrent training so I can attest to it . Put those guys in the hot seat though and they will miss the same thing 8 out of 10 times.