Fight's On! The origins of TOPGUN and dogfights back in the day/future prospects

[Catmando]

Aside from the expected and obnoxious F-8 bravado, some maybe minor exaggeration, and being the timeframe is slightly ahead of my time, this piece is fairly accurate and representative of the many wild and crazy goings on back in the day.

I remember on one of my early FAM - FAM-3? - flights in the F-4 (instructor pilots sat in the back instead of ROs for the 1st few fam flights) we got jumped by an F-8 on climb-out just beyond Torrey Pines feet wet. With less than 5 hours total time in the F-4, I asked my instructor if I should turn and engage the F-8. He actually thought for a moment, and then said, "No, we'd better not. (Later, when I had amassed about 10 – 15 hours total time in the F-4, I turned to engage any and all. )

Also after a training flight, there often was somebody over the "date farm" (a small green patch in the desert west of the Salton Sea south shore and northwest of El Centro. With any extra gas we would pop up on Winchester freq. 303.0 and ask if anyone was over the date farm? If there was any answer, the fight was on!

The lowest and fastest passes I have every seen (including the Blues) were F-8s doing flybys for F-8 squadron change of commands, or funerals or funerals at Miramar.

Miramar indeed was the Wild Wild West, with every stick vying for a 'Top Gun' reputation in ACM, one-upmanship, and bravado. But the herd was also culled, as the weak did not live.

Fortunately the establishment of Top Gun finally caused the F-4 to finally and routinely hand the 'saders their lunch in ACM, after having had to eat it for several years prior.

 

[porw0004]

Awesome. I kinda get the feeling with the way things are now, some of that stuff would likely end you up in prison, let alone wingless.

 

[nittany03]

Stateroom with a marble vanity and wood paneling. Priceless . . .

 

[Flugelman]

Breaking windows with supersonic runs and blowing over boats was pretty common. So was cumshaw, and "liberating" items and equipment from other units that we "admired and needed" more than they did.

The list goes on and on.......

My step-dad tells the story of the Enlisted AP in his FASRON at Kizarau, Japan. They were on FCFs together in AD's when the Chief said "Watch this...". He proceeded to buzz a fishing boat in Tokyo Bay that was under sail, so low that he almost turned it over. Turns out that was a favorite pastime of his when he was out alone.

 

[BarrettRC8]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading that. Its incredible to think of how Naval Aviation was at that time.

 

[Catmando]

Old School TOPGUN Vid by a 1991 "Inside Edition"

Aside from a "youthful" Bill O'reilly and fluff at the start and end, this is worth watching for 2 reasons:

At 3:05: Here you see an interview with (then LCDR) Dan Pederson, the first guy in charge of TOPGUN and who got it all going together.

Awesome fighter pilot, great leader, and highly respected. A bigger-than-life, John Wayne type, he was famous for his ejection with no 'chute. He climbed his streaming risers to get to the pack that still enclosed his parachute. He pried it open and deployed the chute just before he hit terra firma!
[He was a shoe-in for Flag rank and much more, had it not been for an unfortunate incident beyond his control or knowledge while he was a carrier CO]​

At 4:05: - (Then Lt.) Steve Smith: ".... but all in all, we had to steal whatever we had... a building, all of our furniture, the equipment; airplanes you couldn't really steal so we had to borrow them..." [All true. Those were different days. And a great story.]
​

 

[A4sForever]

LOVE Pettigrew in there @ 3:45 ... so would that make two of us that LOVE him ... ???

 

[Catmando]

LOVE Pettigrew in there @ 3:45 ... so would that make two of us that LOVE him ... ???

Great eye, A4s. I missed that earlier, and had to replay it twice to confirm that was "Viper" (who never met a camera he didn't like ) rather than the hard charging and hard working Lt. Smith, who had put it together with little fanfare.

Nice catch.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

Great video. Thanks for sharing Catmando.

 

[HeyJoe]

Aside from the expected and obnoxious F-8 bravado, some maybe minor exaggeration, and being the timeframe is slightly ahead of my time, this piece is fairly accurate and representative of the many wild and crazy goings on back in the day.

I remember on one of my early FAM - FAM-3? - flights in the F-4 (instructor pilots sat in the back instead of ROs for the 1st few fam flights) we got jumped by an F-8 on climb-out just beyond Torrey Pines feet wet. With less than 5 hours total time in the F-4, I asked my instructor if I should turn and engage the F-8. He actually thought for a moment, and then said, "No, we'd better not. (Later, when I had amassed about 10 – 15 hours total time in the F-4, I turned to engage any and all. )

Also after a training flight, there often was somebody over the "date farm" (a small green patch in the desert west of the Salton Sea south shore and northwest of El Centro. With any extra gas we would pop up on Winchester freq. 303.0 and ask if anyone was over the date farm? If there was any answer, the fight was on!

The lowest and fastest passes I have every seen (including the Blues) were F-8s doing flybys for F-8 squadron change of commands, or funerals or funerals at Miramar.

Miramar indeed was the Wild Wild West, with every stick vying for a 'Top Gun' reputation in ACM, one-upmanship, and bravado. But the herd was also culled, as the weak did not live.

Fortunately the establishment of Top Gun finally caused the F-4 to finally and routinely hand the 'saders their lunch in ACM, after having had to eat it for several years prior.

Truly, back in the day!

 

[MIDNJAC]

I suppose that is the same date farm that is a target of opportunity on the IR-217 as well......I wonder what all those local folks at places like the "sub base" and the marina on the salton sea think when they see all these jets tearing it up over their heads. Maybe that's where I'll move when I retire

 

[Catmando]

I suppose that is the same date farm that is a target of opportunity on the IR-217 as well......I wonder what all those local folks at places like the "sub base" and the marina on the salton sea think when they see all these jets tearing it up over their heads. Maybe that's where I'll move when I retire

Looks a little different, but I believe the "date farm" is pictured below, just under "78".

It was on the way back to NKX from the Chocolate mountains or other R-areas around the Salton Sea. If you had the gas, you circled a few times there to see who might show up. You can see how easy a landmark it was, just a bit west of the Salton Sea and northwest of El Centro....

PS: It was usually F-8s who would conserve gas, then circle, hoping for an easy F-4 kill. But times did change when thanks to TOPGUN, F-4 pilots learned how to beat up on the F-8. Then it was F-4s, not F-8s overhead the Date Farm, looking for an engagement.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

The date farm (assuming there isn't more than one) isn't much of a landmark anymore. Not very green at all, just a little darker brown patch in a light brown desert

 

[Catmando]

The date farm (assuming there isn't more than one) isn't much of a landmark anymore. Not very green at all, just a little darker brown patch in a light brown desert

Hopefully that isn't also a commentary on Naval Aviation today.

But there can be no doubt, things have changed greatly since our wild and unbriefed, but cut-throat air-wars - that also tempered and sharpened our blades - over the SoCal date farm, back in the day.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Yeah looks like the same place. Either way, the old days must have been a lot of fun