Does anyone know anything about lat transfers to the FBI, CIA, DEA, ATF or know anyone whos done this? Are you able to save yourself some time and hoop-jumping in the application process because of already being a military officer? It my understanding that your time in service can transfer over if you continue service in the DoD. Any details, etc. would be great
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FBI lat transfer
- Thread starter VAmookie
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I know an enlisted member who joined the FBI. He had to go through the whole application process.
I don't think any of those are actually DoD (could be wrong on that). They are all under homeland security, but different federal agencies. (corrected below by Steve - FBI is Dept of Justice)
Time in the service very well could transfer to another government service, but you would have to check with that service (I'm sure there are federal regulations that spell it out, but I don't know where you could look for those other than the agencies - sorry)
I don't think any of those are actually DoD (could be wrong on that). They are all under homeland security, but different federal agencies. (corrected below by Steve - FBI is Dept of Justice)
Time in the service very well could transfer to another government service, but you would have to check with that service (I'm sure there are federal regulations that spell it out, but I don't know where you could look for those other than the agencies - sorry)
According to the FBI you need to fall into one of 4 categories. 1) Language - you need to be fluent in a foreign language. 2) Accounting degree. 3) Law degree - basically, have passed the bar. or 4) Diversified - Have a 4 year degree and three years of work experience.
I believe the military would count as work experience but there are no shortcuts. Still gotta apply, get accepted and go to Langley. It may make your application look better at the least.
I believe the military would count as work experience but there are no shortcuts. Still gotta apply, get accepted and go to Langley. It may make your application look better at the least.
Barnard1425 said:
As I understand the retirement plan, your military time counts in addition to your civilian government time, but not towards making the 20 year mark. You still have to do 20 years as a civilian, but your military time will count to increase your total check. E.g. 10 years military + 20 years civilian = 30 years of service for retirement, but 10 years mil + 10 yrs civ = squat. You also have to "buy back" your years in the military to get credit. This means you have to pay a nominal fee for each year of military service in order for it to count.
This is especially important for federal law enforcement. Almost all of them have a max age at entry of 37, so that one can retire with 20 years by their mandatory retirement age of 57. The operations directorate of the CIA has a max age at entry of 35, BTW.
Also, keep in mind, there is no such thing as a "lat move" to federal civilian jobs. You apply for a job, hopefully get a job, then must resign your commission (unless you're staying in the reserves), then go to the appropriate school for that agency (again talking law enforcement here). Some guys get very jammed up in the process.
I know of a couple cases where the FBI told applicants that they must have dropped resignation papers in order to progress to "Phase II" of the application process. They don't want to go through the hassle, only to have you back out. I know of another guy who was going Customs aviation and was separating, only to have his class date at FLETC slide. Going into fed civilian jobs can be rewarding, but it definitely isn't a matter of simply taking off the uniform one day and going into a different office in civilian clothes the next. You should probably count on at least being able to sustain yourself without employment for a few months during the transition.
Phrog is right.
Basically, the time you spent on active duty can count towards your government retirement (called Federal Employee Retriement System aka FERS). However, you must actually fufill the time in service requirements for the position you take (You can buy back your active duty time- percentage point/year to add onto the percentage points you aquire by actually working for the govt. You cannot however mix your military and civilian time to make a retirement). You can continue a reserve career as well and recieve a reserve pension in addition to your federal retirment (often refferred to as double dipping) If i remember correctly however, you cannot buy back your active duty time and use if for a federal retirement if you are already drawing an active duty pension.
May not be what you want to hear but well, thats the way it works.
Here are some links to the FERS/ OPM stuff. The second link has a creditable military service section.
http://www.opm.gov/fers_election/ri_90/f_toc.htm
http://www.opm.gov/asd/htm/hod.htm#Computation of Benefits
Basically, the time you spent on active duty can count towards your government retirement (called Federal Employee Retriement System aka FERS). However, you must actually fufill the time in service requirements for the position you take (You can buy back your active duty time- percentage point/year to add onto the percentage points you aquire by actually working for the govt. You cannot however mix your military and civilian time to make a retirement). You can continue a reserve career as well and recieve a reserve pension in addition to your federal retirment (often refferred to as double dipping) If i remember correctly however, you cannot buy back your active duty time and use if for a federal retirement if you are already drawing an active duty pension.
May not be what you want to hear but well, thats the way it works.
Here are some links to the FERS/ OPM stuff. The second link has a creditable military service section.
http://www.opm.gov/fers_election/ri_90/f_toc.htm
http://www.opm.gov/asd/htm/hod.htm#Computation of Benefits
I looked seriously into the whole federal law enforcement bit a couple of years ago when I was on the fence about staying in at the end of my obligation. I became an IP at Whiting partially to build hours for the purpose of getting out. I even roped a couple of SNAs to x-country to a Customs aviation unit to tour their hangar, courtesy of a former Marine flying there.
There are a lot of cool opportunities out there. I have nothing but the utmost respect for our law enforcement brethren, who I consider fellow warriors, so to speak (and who would, in a fair world, get all the bennies we get as far as free tix to Busch Gardens, discount movie tix, etc.). Some things that weighed in my decision to stay Marine (errr....). Some may apply to you, some not.
Pay cut--the FBI and Customs air will start you at GS-10, roughly equivalent to a captain. Everyone else will start you as a GS-7 or 9. When you're on the major's list, taking an offer from those would, in effect, mean up to a 4 grade reduction. Most aviators are on the list or close to it by the time they can get out. When I was single and didn't mind living on pizza and Ramen noodles, that wasn't a big deal. Now......
Benefits. Fed employees have good health coverage, but they are on HMOs. See the line above about families. If that doesn't apply to you, good on ya...
Retirement. As stated earlier, you still have to do another 20 years. Every day, that job running an FBO in AZ when I'm only 42 looks a little better.
Speaking of 20 years, one thing that weighed on my mind in regards to the Customs job was the fact that I'd be in the same billet for the rest of my life. The Big Green Gun Club sucks a lot of the time. However, in 1-3 years, you know you'll be doing something else that sucks differently! In a lot of jobs on the civilian side, aviation in particular, once you get qual'ed, you're a line pilot. In 20 years, guess what? You're a pilot with 6000 more hours. In the USMC, even if you don't become a CO or something, you'll have some sort of increasing career progression.
This one is for me in particular, but applies to others in generalized form. I had a MV-22 slot waiting for me around my decision time. No one else has that technology. To broaden that premise, the military has some cool toys, and cool missions, that no one else has.
Only Customs takes aviators and puts them directly into flying billets. The FBI and DEA make you wait 3 years before allowing one to apply for their air units. Border patrol has a different time requirement, but they make you drive the border with everyone else before you can fly, and those guys make less than the GS-7 I mentioned above, unfortunately.
Those are some of my random thoughts on the matter. There are a lot of plusses to going into federal law enforcement. Probably a good 1/4 to 1/3 of my contempories looked into it at one time. It ain't all wine and roses on the other side though.
There are a lot of cool opportunities out there. I have nothing but the utmost respect for our law enforcement brethren, who I consider fellow warriors, so to speak (and who would, in a fair world, get all the bennies we get as far as free tix to Busch Gardens, discount movie tix, etc.). Some things that weighed in my decision to stay Marine (errr....). Some may apply to you, some not.
Pay cut--the FBI and Customs air will start you at GS-10, roughly equivalent to a captain. Everyone else will start you as a GS-7 or 9. When you're on the major's list, taking an offer from those would, in effect, mean up to a 4 grade reduction. Most aviators are on the list or close to it by the time they can get out. When I was single and didn't mind living on pizza and Ramen noodles, that wasn't a big deal. Now......
Benefits. Fed employees have good health coverage, but they are on HMOs. See the line above about families. If that doesn't apply to you, good on ya...
Retirement. As stated earlier, you still have to do another 20 years. Every day, that job running an FBO in AZ when I'm only 42 looks a little better.
Speaking of 20 years, one thing that weighed on my mind in regards to the Customs job was the fact that I'd be in the same billet for the rest of my life. The Big Green Gun Club sucks a lot of the time. However, in 1-3 years, you know you'll be doing something else that sucks differently! In a lot of jobs on the civilian side, aviation in particular, once you get qual'ed, you're a line pilot. In 20 years, guess what? You're a pilot with 6000 more hours. In the USMC, even if you don't become a CO or something, you'll have some sort of increasing career progression.
This one is for me in particular, but applies to others in generalized form. I had a MV-22 slot waiting for me around my decision time. No one else has that technology. To broaden that premise, the military has some cool toys, and cool missions, that no one else has.
Only Customs takes aviators and puts them directly into flying billets. The FBI and DEA make you wait 3 years before allowing one to apply for their air units. Border patrol has a different time requirement, but they make you drive the border with everyone else before you can fly, and those guys make less than the GS-7 I mentioned above, unfortunately.
Those are some of my random thoughts on the matter. There are a lot of plusses to going into federal law enforcement. Probably a good 1/4 to 1/3 of my contempories looked into it at one time. It ain't all wine and roses on the other side though.
I looked at the FBI pretty hard a couple years back when I was deciding to separate. Most of the points have been hit on already, but just wanted to clarify a couple things I saw in reading through the thread.CORPSviation said:
-- FBI falls under the Department of Justice, not Homeland Security
-- The military definitely counts as work experience, and these agencies love the experience we bring to the table, especially military officers. The needs of the FBI change ALL THE TIME!! If this is something you are interested in, do not rely on what someone tells you the FBI is looking for NOW. It can change tomorrow...literally. For example, a few years back, they were really looking for people with law degrees pretty hard. They hit a point where having a law degree actually made you less competetive compared to someone like us (military) who brings a completely different skill set to the table. I don't know what the case is now regarding thos with law degrees as that would have to be answered by a recruiter or check here: https://www.fbijobs.gov/jobdesc.asp?requisitionid=368 Right now, they're looking for accountants pretty hard.
-- Max age of entry (for any federal law enforcement officer position by law) is 36 not 37. You cannot have reached your 37th birthday by the time you are appointed. What does this mean? It means you should not plan to retire from the military and then head over to be a fed law enforcement officer. There are other positions at many of the different agencies you can fill, just not that one.
-- for better info on the app process and anything else really, I would head to http://www.911jobforums.com/vB/ if I were you
ChuckMK23 said:We had a guy in our squadron who left active duty and applied to the FBI, was accepted and apparently has had a great career there. Former military commissioned is good - Irish and Catholic is better of course!
I've heard that Mormon is the new Catholic over there! The FBI is a very exclusive club. They get serveral times as many applications as they have spots, since they are the most famous of the agencies. If law enforcement is your thing, look at some of the other agencies, and be aware that going laterally between those, with the exception of the FBI and DEA, is not that difficult.
Look at the Postal Inspection Service (don't laugh--a LOT of serious crimes have mail fraud as a nexus), Naval CIS (surprising amount of undercover work and drug busts among others), BATF, and Diplomatic Security Service (passport fraud at home, runs embassy security and personal protection of diplomats abroad).
I should have expressed better earlier--by age limit, I meant exclusive of 37, not inclusive. That birthday is drop dead time.
The hardest thing about getting into the FBI post 9-11 is luck and timing. For example, unless you are a language specialist, the most competitive applicant is an intel weenie. An intel background can get you short listed; even then, the time from initial application to your time at the FBI Academy is almost always more than one year (sometimes two).
The FBI flying thing is a pretty sweet deal. Those guys fly a couple hops a day and that's about it. The sucky part as phrogdriver mentions, is putting your three years in as a special agent first.
Also keep in mind that you'll start as a GS10, but you'l be a GS12 after 24 months of field service. And, oh buy the way you get a 20% bonus for the expectation of working 50 hour weeks vice the GS standard of 40. Then you'll get a nice cost of living adjustments for the expensive markets. . That brings you at about 80k for a market like LA (where all my FBI buds are). Certainly a paycut for a salty major but, like I said not a bad gig (rarely work nights and weekends--never get deployed etc.). And of course the FBI vehicle with the free gas and the satisfaction of packing heat on every commercial airliner you get on . . KILL!
The FBI flying thing is a pretty sweet deal. Those guys fly a couple hops a day and that's about it. The sucky part as phrogdriver mentions, is putting your three years in as a special agent first.
Also keep in mind that you'll start as a GS10, but you'l be a GS12 after 24 months of field service. And, oh buy the way you get a 20% bonus for the expectation of working 50 hour weeks vice the GS standard of 40. Then you'll get a nice cost of living adjustments for the expensive markets. . That brings you at about 80k for a market like LA (where all my FBI buds are). Certainly a paycut for a salty major but, like I said not a bad gig (rarely work nights and weekends--never get deployed etc.). And of course the FBI vehicle with the free gas and the satisfaction of packing heat on every commercial airliner you get on . . KILL!
ill send out a "kill" to that. Since you brought it up rainman, im going to ask. I dont see how even a senior major is going to pull in over 80k a year. And believe me, ive been looking with an eyeglass and fine-tooth comb. From what i can gather from base pay sheets, aviation inct. pay, deployment perks, it looks like yearly income is somewhere in the 60's of thousands. Post or PM if you can explain
