phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Clearly spelling wasn't involved in the "lunch box BFM" demonstration I just received.
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F/A-18E vs F... benefits of one over the other?
- Thread starter pdizzle
- Start date
Hey, I'm sitting next to you, I said it out loud before I typed it, and at that point I figured it was a race for me to quote you before you edited it. In my haste, I did mispell it. My bad. My mistake was one of haste, I believe you actually thought there were 2 f's in the word.
Does it smell like asparagus ... ???
So are you saying he does in fact have a big dick??????
navyao
Registered User
I just gotta say one thing - Wow!!!
Flying the foxtrot at least has to offer improved SA, two pairs of eyes has to be an improvment over one pair, right? Ok I'm gonna start another, "is the F-14's better than the Rhino" thread now. Just kidding...
Doh...
Phroggy, in your dreams! Like whatcha been smokin'?.....call your provisos, and raise you a dual engine failure, and then you 'might' stand a chance!:icon_tong
BzB:sleep_125
Phroggy, in your dreams! Like whatcha been smokin'?.....call your provisos, and raise you a dual engine failure, and then you 'might' stand a chance!:icon_tong
BzB:sleep_125
Impromptu pole taken today at 106.
Of the 20 or so dual quald instructors asked (all flying BFM on todays sked). All said they would rather fight BFM in the version of the hornet they flew in the fleet, with the exception of 2 guys who were fleet C guys who picked E's over C's. One of the guys is a patch wearer and the other is our in house NATOPs guy. But as a whole, guys lean toward what they flew in the fleet. But I guess since we only fly Fams and Forms it doesnt really matter.
Pilot man,
You are the guy that brought the C's into this E/F thread. PM sent.
Of the 20 or so dual quald instructors asked (all flying BFM on todays sked). All said they would rather fight BFM in the version of the hornet they flew in the fleet, with the exception of 2 guys who were fleet C guys who picked E's over C's. One of the guys is a patch wearer and the other is our in house NATOPs guy. But as a whole, guys lean toward what they flew in the fleet. But I guess since we only fly Fams and Forms it doesnt really matter.
Pilot man,
You are the guy that brought the C's into this E/F thread. PM sent.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
No, seriously. See, this one time at MAWTS, the F-5 pilot from VMFT-401 got distracted by something shiny in the cockpit and I was on him like white on rice. Or stink on shit, whichever you prefer...
I always knew jet guys liked the pole...
Roger that.
I find this behavior incredibly racist and discriminatory --- what about taking impromptu Czechs ... Bulgars ... or Hungarians ???
In 3.5 years as an air wing training instructor at NSAWC we trained no single seat RMCs that I recall. I only personally know of two guys who got that qual as single seat pilot because it was an all single seat air wing. Yes, they can act as it, but the Navy generally doesn't do that since we have a very good two seat platform for it. And yes, it is a LOT going on.
I have fought Eagles and Vipers flying Cs and Es as well as fighting many Hornets and Rhinos from a slick Viper. I have not fought an Eagle from a Viper though. Generally Eagles and Vipers have better energy performance (sustainment and addition) while Hornets and Rhinos have better turn performance. It still comes down to the man in the box, but the typical junior Hornet/Rhino guy will try and fight a Viper or an Eagle the same way they fight their squadron mate in a C, E or F. This is generally a bad gameplan because the Hornet/Rhino guy will typically attempt to use their superior turn performance a little too early in the fight placing them in an energy deficit. Fighting an Eagle or Viper from a Hornet or Rhino requires a little more patience and using your turn performance advantage discerningly. Experienced guys will know this and can work it to their advantage against most uninitiated Eagle and Viper pilots. But there are some very good Eagle and Viper guys who know how to fight against a Hornet too. That's why it always come back to the guy in the cockpit.
As part of the SWTI course support I have fought many H-60s as well. I will say that it can be a royal pain in the ass. Those bastards will go hide in the shadows of clouds or get into the mountain terrain with the shrubbery and it breaks up their profile making them hard to see. A helo's worst enemy is his own shadow - that is the best way to find the helo, just find his shadow. When fighting a helo I actually prefer bombs to missles if they are low and running.
re:"Generally Eagles and Vipers have better energy performance (sustainment and addition) while Hornets and Rhinos have better turn performance."
thx, NVP
i would guess the energy performance deficit is the penalty for having a heavier carier suitable jet (T/W). not sure why the turning advantage is there unless the later design of the f18's benefited from aerodynamic science advances.
thx, NVP
i would guess the energy performance deficit is the penalty for having a heavier carier suitable jet (T/W). not sure why the turning advantage is there unless the later design of the f18's benefited from aerodynamic science advances.
Hmmm.. we did that in Fallon a few times. Make a run across Owens Valley and see if the F-18 can pick you up.
Also, there is a video out there somewhere of a jet taking out a helo with a bomb after said jet expended all A/A weaponry attempting to splash the helo. Israeli?
The Hornet and Viper were designed at the same time actually. The Hornet was born from the loser of a new fighter competition between the YF-16 and the YF-17. The AF picked up the 16 and the YF-17 actually caught the attention of the Navy and was developed into the F/A-18.
Without getting too much into the weeds there two two aspects that play into energy sustainment and addition: aircraft aerodynamics and thrust to weight ratio. Eagles and Vipers have better thrust to weight ratios and have a more limited angle of attack turn capability based on aerodynamic and flight control design. Thus they have better energy sustainment and energy addition. Hornets and Rhinos have lower thrust to weight ratios (maybe partly due to carrier beefing up), but their aerodynamics and flight control design allow for them to operate at much higher angles of attack. That is how they get their better turn performance, but at a severe cost of energy to do so. Without having the energy addition capabilities of the Eagle or Viper that better turn performance is both a blessing and a curse depending on if you use it wisely or not.
There are basically two types of dogfight, or BFM: rate and radius. Hornets and Rhinos can rate pretty well with Eagles and Vipers, but can out radius them. Hence you must be patient and use your radius advantage prudently because if you blow your chance then you can no longer rate with them nor do you have the energy addition capability to get back in the rate fight. And if you try and only rate with them, but are sloppy, you get into the same energy deficit.