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Disassociated Sea-Tour

GMan1976

GMan1976

Banned
It's kind of strange to me to think that I had to sign on for 10yrs (8yrs post-wings) because the Navy spent all this $ on me to learn to fly and yet they only want me to fly 3yrs of it. Can you imagine them making sub-nukes do a disassociated sea tour? Of course not, they are using them to perform the job they were trained to do.
 
zab1001

zab1001

Well-Known Member
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Someone explain this 3 years business to me...most people I know (from all communities) are getting 6 yrs minimum after wings...what am I missing...
 
bunk22

bunk22

Super *********
pilot
Super Moderator
GMan1976 said:
It's kind of strange to me to think that I had to sign on for 10yrs (8yrs post-wings) because the Navy spent all this $ on me to learn to fly and yet they only want me to fly 3yrs of it. Can you imagine them making sub-nukes do a disassociated sea tour? Of course not, they are using them to perform the job they were trained to do.
Click to expand...

It's not only three years of flying. Once a pilot gets his/her wings, you do your sea tour followed by your shore tour, a flying tour for most aviators. That's about 6 years before you do a disassociated tour. You can have at least 3 flying tours (including your DH tour) before you are up for command or O-5. So in your first 10 years, if done right, you will fly for at least 8 of those.
 
BigIron

BigIron

Remotely piloted
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I am getting paid the blood money (bonus), so I am going to the boat, baby!!

No prob. I am going shooter. If you guys are interested in this billet, I suggest you get penciled in early on ( over a year out).

It's all good.
 
1rotorhead

1rotorhead

Registered User
pilot
1rotorhead said:
Neither of my skippers did a disassociated seat tour, and I know for a fact there are CAG's who didn't. Seems like a wast of money to send pilots to do the job. Think about it: In the first 10 years of your career, a typical pilot will only spend 3 years flying in the fleet. Not a lot of value for the money spent training us.
Click to expand...

Note above: 3 years flying in the fleet.
 
T

The Stinkster

Now who do I blame?
pilot
I love it! Another "I pilot, I only fly" debate! Brett and Gatordev are right on the mark. If you signed on for this job under the impression that all you were being trained to do was fly....dump your letter at the end of your shore tour or as soon as your commitment is up. The lessons learned and the expanded understanding you get from stepping outside your community bubble are vital to being able to go back and effectively do your job in a dh/xo/co role. In you JO tour you are learning leadership skills and learning to "fight" your platform. You level of understanding as to how your part in the puzzle fits into the greater strategy is pretty limited. By taking a tour on the boat, you get a better appreciation of the bigger picture, you learn how other platforms (ships, subs, helos, fighters, cods, vp, etc) fit in to the picture and the coordination required to execute the overall strategy of the battlegroup and the team as a whole. This information is important, because if you are fortunate enough to get back as a dh and beyond, you get into the realm of planning and execution and fighting the entire squadron....employing your assets as a whole to fulfill your part of the overall requirement. It's about having enough experience and knowledge base to make proper use of your assets. IT IS NOT A PENALTY FOR BEING AN AVIATOR!
Even on the self-interest side, if you want to go that route, the boat tour is a must. I can only speak for the VP side, but my understanding is that other communities are going to see more pain and suffering and lower screen numbers in the dh world as well. Don't bother with the "I know someone who" responses, as there are always exceptions, but if you elect to try and get by without doing a boat tour, it is a deal breaker on dh boards. Why should they pick someone with experience in only one arena when they can take someone with experience in all areas of the Navy battle force.
I am on my dis tour now. Did I necessarily want to do it? Did I think it was going to be as much fun as my fleet tour? No, but I knew that I would learn something, and I would be better qualified and more effective in my job should I get to go back for a dh tour. Stop ?!@#$ing. If you don't want to do it, don't, but accept the consequences.
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
^^ Very well said. You complainers just don't get it. If you hate the system so much, why don't you all just get out and make room for the rest of us?

Brett
 
1rotorhead

1rotorhead

Registered User
pilot
What flavor was that kool-aid? News flash: I can see a staff job helping you expand your bubble, but not the other jobs. Aviators that don't deploy to ships while a JO should go to boat tours. At least you're in the "navy" for that tour.
 
hscs

hscs

Registered User
pilot
Ok, Stinkster -- I agree that there are jobs that do broaden your horizons. You happen to have one of those jobs; however, many 1st tour JOs get the experience of seeing how Strike Ops and COPS works without doing a disassociated sea tour. The CAG staff guys still do both those jobs and manage to stay current in their airframe -- all the while broadening themselves. The real questions to ask are -- what do your P3 comrades get out of being a shooter? What does an HSC bubba get out of being an airboss on an LPD? Are these jobs that can be done by LDOs? How is this different from being the Line or the Aircraft Divo in a squadron? And how does a Shooter learn about how the rest of the battlegroup works, when he is too busy with his current job? About all that they get are pain points -- and they get the carrot dangled in front of them for an OOD letter.

Fact of the matter is that we have guys who are taking the fight to people around the world. Guys that take time out of the cockpit lose a significant amount of tactical proficiency -- some to the point where you are better off served keeping them out of the cockpit on big missions. And guess what -- we need O4s to lead missions. How can we do that if they have been out of the fight being a glorified DivO? We need guys that are tactical experts in their platforms to support theater operational objectives.

Unfortunately, our promotion system is still based on a peacetime metality where getting "checks in the block" matter.

Stay away from the red Cool Aid -- I hear that it really screws you up!
 
Harrier Dude

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
As I understand it, your disassociated sea tour is like our FAC tour. Time out of the cockpit doing what "the backbone of the service" does.

You can shout at the rain all you want, but the experience is broadening in many other ways than just doing whatever assigned tasks come your way (shooting airplanes, standing duty, etc). To me, the most important part was seeing things from a different perspective by getting outside of my normal comfort zone. Odds are you will come away with a greater understanding of how the whole picture comes together and find out why some of the things that irritated you before are the way they are.

Why do grunts need to do this? Why does the plan always change? Why does it take so long to get XXX done? These were all questions that I had before I "saw how the sausage was made".

Also, don't discount the impact YOU can have on the community you're in. Are all pilots self involved whiners that can't work on anything not within their narrow realm of experience? Can a pilot handle planning XXX? Or understand YYY? These are all questions that they have about you.

Like it or not, the promotion board is not all from your community. If you can show that you are able to perform as an officer in their community, they will value that on the promotion board. If they see that "one of their own" thinks that you're a good officer, they'll be more able to understand your value to the service as an officer.

It's not about punching tickets. It's about growing as an officer and demonstrating your leadership abilities in ways that other commmunities understand.
 
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