DADT repealed

[MAKE VAPES]

Seems a bit odd that THEIR moral compass should have to kowtow to yours (which isn't affected in the least by any of this).

Um, if noone asked them their persuasion, they were forced to lie about absolutelly nothing. IMO, saying nothing isn't the same as being disengenuous in this case (integrity intact! and following the rules!).

That is why it is MY moral compass. I didn't say they should to kowtow, just shut up and serve as they always apparently have. I don't agree with it, I don't like it, but regardless of our inconsequential opinions, its law, and in 60 days, we will impliment this bullshit and carry out the plan of the day.

I agree with the folks who see the logical next steps, this is a slippery marriage slope. And I also agree that the foundation of the arguement is in the question of choice: to act or not to act on a desire historically unaccepted by most of society. The group contemplation on the topic will lead nowhere. I won't.

Ask the question: Good for you, or good for the military as a whole? The ME generation has it, yay for change!!!! Convince folks that the "or" can be an "and" and the debate will probably stop. Angry dudes in pink tutu's storming ridges in Afghanistan would scare the hell out of the Taliban! (tastelessly kidding)

Our shoestring budget is already pressurizing readiness, maintanence is hurting, fighter gap is looming, China and Korea are sassy... these socio-military issues thrown on top of superflously stressed service will surely help the plight.... Just as long as everybody "feels" good.... anything is OK. The Brits Ive spoken with claim the integration of gays is a "bloody nightmare" (multiple O-4/O-5 datapoints that it does indeed affect morale and probably cascades to more).

Semper Maximus Per Minor.

 

[MasterBates]

Thanks, brother. Port call Dubai. Had to explode on the scene with authority.

Brett

I thought you were just in hiding until it was safe for you to come out of the closet.

Sent via my HTC EVO 4G

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

You're painting with too broad of a brush. If you're not hearing people "whining" about it, you're not listening.

I've posted this before and I'll post it here again. This matter will never be resolved because at the end of the day it comes down to whether or not you believe that being a homosexual is a choice or not. If you feel people are born that way - go find a racial minority (perhaps Ms Parks) and explain to her how you and her are the same. If you feel its a choice, you'll need to answer the cliched question that all gay rights supports ask, "when did you decide to be straight?" Regardless of where you fall out on this, until an independent and politically unmotivated scientist finds a "gay gene" this argument will continue. And as long as that happens there will be Bretts out there who think that people who disagree with him are morons.

Oh you mean like this one where they actually changed the sexuality?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316316,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/health/03iht-cell.html

 

[Recovering LSO]

Oh you mean like this one where they actually changed the sexuality?

"....researchers had artificially endowed with a single male-type gene...." Yep, just like it

 

[eas7888]

Oh you mean like this one where they actually changed the sexuality?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316316,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/03/health/03iht-cell.html

So you're saying then, that homosexuality is a genetic defect/disorder, like sickle cell or cystic fibrosis?

 

[pilot_man]

I don't quite understand WHY this has any bearing on the situation. Like many people, I personally don't agree with the lifestyle choices of some people, but as someone who follows libertarian political values, I believe the government has no right to tell people what they can and cannot do in their personal life. There are limits to this, but this isn't a battle worth fighting.

By removing DADT, your moral compass can still point wherever it pleases. This policy isn't forcing anyone to BE gay, it's merely allowing the flamers to come out of the closet.

I'll ask again, since a gay dude in the shower is no big deal, unless there is gayness going on, then why don't male and female shower together? There is a reason we don't have co-ed heads, this is the same principle. I see it like this, there are people who won't eat pork. As stupid and moronic as I think that is, I don't give a shit. I don't say anything to them and I let them live their lives sans bacon. I don't try to make them eat pork or tell them how moronic they are for not eating pig. Now when they try to tell me that I can't eat bacon, or say the word ham in a classroom then we have a problem. You want to be gay, be gay. Don't be gay in front of me. Don't try to make me comfortable with your gayness. You want to be gay in the military, do it. Just don't make me uncomfortable with your gayness in the military. Don't just try to make me shut up, because I don't like coloring very much. Just one more factor in the decision to not Fly Navy anymore. This is just part of the pussification of America.

 

[mmx1]

I'll ask again, since a gay dude in the shower is no big deal, unless there is gayness going on, then why don't male and female shower together? There is a reason we don't have co-ed heads, this is the same principle.

Numbers, and inertia. We've already accepted and have facilities for male/female heads. There is no national movement afoot for gay/straight showers in showers, whether in dorms, gyms, or schools. It's easier for us to deal with it and put up curtains than build new showers.

I see it like this, there are people who won't eat pork. As stupid and moronic as I think that is, I don't give a shit. I don't say anything to them and I let them live their lives sans bacon. I don't try to make them eat pork or tell them how moronic they are for not eating pig. Now when they try to tell me that I can't eat bacon, or say the word ham in a classroom then we have a problem. You want to be gay, be gay. Don't be gay in front of me. Don't try to make me comfortable with your gayness.

I don't think that analogy falls out the way you think it does. You're saying we shouldn't make people eat pork if they don't want to. But DADT requires homosexuals to not have homosexual relationships outside of work. Nobody's forcing you to gobble cock or accept homosexuality. But the expectation is that you get along with gays at work like the non-pork eaters have to get along with your pork-eating butt, and nobody tells the other what they can or cannot do outside of work. You don't want to be shut up, but you want the gays to.

 

[The Chief]

Right about now we need some humor in this thread: IMHO.

 

[eas7888]

rant

You do realize that this does very little to change the status quo, don't you? You may have been showering with homosexuals since your first day in the military. The only difference now is that you can know they're gay. Big freaking deal. If people continued to think like this, under the "Ignorance is bliss" philosophy, we would never make any forward progress in society.

The removal of this policy isn't forcing you to make love to a man in the shower, or watch two guys get it on, it's simply allowing people to not have to lie about who they are. If I were you, I'd be more concerned about the fact that the military was making people lie about their life. As mentioned before, this doesn't exactly promote integrity. Regardless of what you think of homosexuality, which by this point, it's pretty obvious, you should very much care about integrity.

 

[ryan1234]

 

[Brunes]

I'll ask again, since a gay dude in the shower is no big deal, unless there is gayness going on, then why don't male and female shower together? There is a reason we don't have co-ed heads, this is the same principle. I see it like this, there are people who won't eat pork. As stupid and moronic as I think that is, I don't give a shit. I don't say anything to them and I let them live their lives sans bacon. I don't try to make them eat pork or tell them how moronic they are for not eating pig. Now when they try to tell me that I can't eat bacon, or say the word ham in a classroom then we have a problem. You want to be gay, be gay. Don't be gay in front of me. Don't try to make me comfortable with your gayness. You want to be gay in the military, do it. Just don't make me uncomfortable with your gayness in the military. Don't just try to make me shut up, because I don't like coloring very much. Just one more factor in the decision to not Fly Navy anymore. This is just part of the pussification of America.

Men and women don't shower together cause someone a long time ago decided that's what was going to happen....and no one has cared to try to change it or thinks that it's unfair. And the fact that men and women don't shower together doesn't make it okay for gays to be marginalized because of their lifestyle.

mmx hit it already. Your analogy doesn't hold up-The people who eat pork and the people who don't eat pork very rarely are in situations together where the eating of pork is a major event. Maybe someone gets invited to a pig roast and they don't eat pork. They might laugh about it, they might leave, they might just eat the other stuff. But they aren't forced to eat pork to fit in.
You don't have to like gays, altho my guess is you've already met one or two and didn't think they were bad guys. Nor do you have to become gay...You just have to grin and bear and do your job-which isn't worry about who does what with their penis on liberty...and if that means you need to get out after your commitment-More power to ya.
I doubt you are going to have very many folks who will make it very long trying to convert people to gayness...It's sexual harassment to make unwanted advances...That's the same as always and sex isn't an appropriate work topic for anyone (straight, gay, animals, farm tools- it doesn't matter...It's not work topic.)

And like MAKE VAPES said- It's going to happen-slightly less than 60 days from now...Maybe time would be better spent preparing for the inevitable questions and "issues" proactively instead of lamenting "the pussification of America"

 

[bunk22]

I don't think that analogy falls out the way you think it does. You're saying we shouldn't make people eat pork if they don't want to. But DADT requires homosexuals to not have homosexual relationships outside of work. Nobody's forcing you to gobble cock or accept homosexuality.

Remember, gobble one cock and you're a cock gobbler.

Some humor........or not.

 

[pilot_man]

Numbers, and inertia. We've already accepted and have facilities for male/female heads. There is no national movement afoot for gay/straight showers in showers, whether in dorms, gyms, or schools. It's easier for us to deal with it and put up curtains than build new showers.

The reason it's separate is that no woman would want to be naked in front of a bunch of men that are sexually attracted to them, unless that is the position that they put themselves in. At no point would the military or society say it was correct to throw a woman in the middle of a bunch of naked men. But it is ok to make me shower and be naked with a bunch of dudes that may be sexually attracted towards me. Again, if you're ok with it, good for you. You are so 2010. Way to be metro. I personally don't like to be in that situation. So I shouldn't be forced into it. Which is what repealing DADT is doing. It's making me be around the bacon, when I don't like pork. You wouldn't make a bunch of Muslims sit in a room full of pork would you? Even if you didn't make them eat the pork.


If any prorec SNA ever wants to see a rant, I will show them what a rant really is.

 

[eas7888]

You wouldn't make a bunch of Muslims sit in a room full of pork would you? Even if you didn't make them eat the pork.
If any prorec SNA ever wants to see a rant, I will show them what a rant really is.

Fine, I'll bite on your 'Muslim' analogy. We in fact DO make Muslims/Jews sit in rooms with pork. I've been in a number of DFACs where pork in multiple forms was served. As you've been so kind to point out, we don't make them eat it.

This situation is no different. We're putting people in the situation where they MIGHT have to shower with homosexuals. This is akin to having Muslims/Jews sit in the dining facility with pork all around them. We are not making you have sex with these gay men, just as we aren't forcing Muslims to eat pork.

Lastly, if you want to look down on me because I'm waiting to go to OCS, that's fine, but that has nothing to do with the situation at hand. I'm choosing to be as professional as possible, and I would expect no less from anyone else.

 

[Brunes]

Fine, I'll bite on your 'Muslim' analogy. We in fact DO make Muslims/Jews sit in rooms with pork. I've been in a number of DFACs where pork in multiple forms was served. As you've been so kind to point out, we don't make them eat it.

This situation is no different. We're putting people in the situation where they MIGHT have to shower with homosexuals. This is akin to having Muslims/Jews sit in the dining facility with pork all around them. We are not making you have sex with these gay men, just as we aren't forcing Muslims to eat pork.

Lastly, if you want to look down on me because I'm waiting to go to OCS, that's fine, but that has nothing to do with the situation at hand. I'm choosing to be as professional as possible, and I would expect no less from anyone else.

Ermm...Not to mention- There is also a very real possibility that you are already "in the room with the pork." but someone lied and told you it was fish instead. There are already gays in the military- so if gays give you the heebie geebies- You should be feeling weird already.