COVID-19

[Mirage]

And now they are vaccinated and I am vaccinated, same as you are, and life is normal. I sucked it up until we could all get vaccinated, instead of being a crybaby about it.

I'm so confused. In your previous post you talked about how selfish it would be to be unvaccinated because you could be a vector for the death of your immunocompromised friends/colleagues. Now you say they're vaxed so you're no threat... But then neither are unvaccinated people a theat to them, so it is not selfish to be unvaxed. What am I missing?

LOL, I worked in the office/lab all the way through the pandemic, and worked volunteer EMS too. Before and after getting vaccinated.

So if you were not afraid, then why do you keep pointing to people who also are not afraid, so they don't get the vax, then if they happen to be in the small minority of folks who end up hospitalized with it, later regret not being afraid? Are you not trying to show people that there is reason to be afraid if you're unvaccinated? Again, you seem to be contradicting yourself entirely, so what am I missing?

So...what is your opinion on your covid ideological brethren, the people that agree with you 100% on mandates, ivermectin, masks, etc., but are unvaccinated and at risk (overweight)?

How about the ideological twins who agreed with you on all things Covid, but once in the hospital on high flow O2 wish they had gotten the vaccine, and actually recommend it to others? Traitors to the cause?

First off, careful lumping all of your "others" into one basket. I have no opinion on ivermectin, and I'm sure our opinions on all manner of covid policies vary. My general opinion is that people and their doctors should be able to make their own decisions. That goes for those I believe are at high risk due to obesity. Let them make their own risk and medical decisions. Who am I to force my beliefs and decisions on them? Someone mentioned seatbelt laws previously and I feel the same about them. If you don't want to wear one, knock yourself out. It won't affect me any. I am vaccinated, so if others don't want to vaccinate or wear a mask or whatever then knock yourselves out. Doesn't affect anyone but themselves.

And no, there are no traitors to the cause. The only 'cause' I'm aware of is people not wanting their freedoms (to make medical decisions, to go to restaurants, etc.) taken away. Someone regretting not getting vaccinated is not saying "we should mandate this for everyone". And if they do, I will respectfully disagree.

 

[SlickAg]

I'm so confused. In your previous post you talked about how selfish it would be to be unvaccinated because you could be a vector for the death of your immunocompromised friends/colleagues. Now you say they're vaxed so you're no threat... But then neither are unvaccinated people a theat to them, so it is not selfish to be unvaxed. What am I missing?


So if you were not afraid, then why do you keep pointing to people who also are not afraid, so they don't get the vax, then if they happen to be in the small minority of folks who end up hospitalized with it, later regret not being afraid? Are you not trying to show people that there is reason to be afraid if you're unvaccinated? Again, you seem to be contradicting yourself entirely, so what am I missing?


First off, careful lumping all of your "others" into one basket. I have no opinion on ivermectin, and I'm sure our opinions on all manner of covid policies vary. My general opinion is that people and their doctors should be able to make their own decisions. That goes for those I believe are at high risk due to obesity. Let them make their own risk and medical decisions. Who am I to force my beliefs and decisions on them? Someone mentioned seatbelt laws previously and I feel the same about them. If you don't want to wear one, knock yourself out. It won't affect me any. I am vaccinated, so if others don't want to vaccinate or wear a mask or whatever then knock yourselves out. Doesn't affect anyone but themselves.

And no, there are no traitors to the cause. The only 'cause' I'm aware of is people not wanting their freedoms (to make medical decisions, to go to restaurants, etc.) taken away. Someone regretting not getting vaccinated is not saying "we should mandate this for everyone". And if they do, I will respectfully disagree.

Wow, great response. I’d love to hear an answer to this that doesn’t involve posting anecdotal articles about unvaccinated people on their deathbed regretting their choices. But I doubt that’ll happen.

Shoot, I’m still waiting for him to respond about how New Zealand’s strategy went from “getting rid of covid” to “we have to learn how to live with it” in less than two months. I’ll keep holding my breath in suspense...

 

[taxi1]

I'm so confused. In your previous post you talked about how selfish it would be to be unvaccinated because you could be a vector for the death of your immunocompromised friends/colleagues. Now you say they're vaxed so you're no threat... But then neither are unvaccinated people a theat to them, so it is not selfish to be unvaxed. What am I missing?

The idea that vaccinations lower transmission and severity, and that an immuno-compromised person being around other vaccinated people is far safer than being around a pool that is not vaccinated and takes no precautions.

 

[SlickAg]

The idea that vaccinations lower transmission and severity, and that an immuno-compromised person being around other vaccinated people is far safer than being around a pool that is not vaccinated and takes no precautions.

You forgot to answer a lot of his other questions.

Would also mind educating the collective on what happened in New Zealand?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445741061083521040

 

[Mirage]

The idea that vaccinations lower transmission and severity, and that an immuno-compromised person being around other vaccinated people is far safer than being around a pool that is not vaccinated and takes no precautions.

But if the vax works so well that the hospitals don't have hardly any vaccinated folks in them, as you routinely claim, then what is the harm of your friends being around unvaccinated people?

Would you mind answering my other questions as well, so I can understand why you aren't contradicting yourself as I described?

 

[taxi1]

But if the vax works so well that the hospitals don't have hardly any vaccinated folks in them, as you routinely claim...

As I routinely claim...

Are you disputing that the majority of people in hospitals for Covid are unvaccinated? If so, what do you think the statistics are?

 

[SlickAg]

How it started:





How it’s going:

 

[GroundPounder]

You forgot to answer a lot of his other questions.

Would also mind educating the collective on what happened in New Zealand?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445741061083521040

1. That is a scary thought process. If you did not get the info from the government it is not true.
2. Those are some big ass teeth.
3. I kept expecting the guy behind her to start doing the Chevy Chase routine.

 

[Mirage]

As I routinely claim...

Are you disputing that the majority of people in hospitals for Covid are unvaccinated? If so, what do you think the statistics are?

I have no idea. I've seen good points made by others that there are a lot of people dying in the very places you have mentioned that don't seem to be accounted for in your infographics. But I haven't studied it myself and don't pretend to know. I'll take your word for it, though, as I do think one is better off if they contract covid and were vaccinated.

Now, can you stop avoiding my questions and answer them, or perhaps you should just admit you were mistaken and contradicted yourself?

 

[SlickAg]

1. That is a scary thought process. If you did not get the info from the government it is not true.
2. Those are some big ass teeth.
3. I kept expecting the guy behind her to start doing the Chevy Chase routine.

It astonishes me that there’s so many educated people who seem to think that the government are the ones with all the right answers. We are witnessing the failure of government by expert class in front of our very eyes. These experts come up with the policy, implement the policy, and when it doesn’t achieve its intended purpose, double down on their efforts. Fauci is a great example. He’s a government bureaucrat who’s apotheosis is now complete. He has purposefully misled and lied to the American people. Not to mention how often he’s been wrong. He is the personification of overreaching government control and power. 1984 is no longer just a novel. It’s our lives.

 

[taxi1]

I have no idea...

Now, can you stop avoiding my questions...

Frankly, if we can't agree on the basic facts, of course we're not going to agree on the inferences. When you say things like, "If vaccines are so good that..." or "Now you say they're vaxed so you're no threat..." you're starting out with a false strawman, so your whole sequence of questions are nonsensical.

Here are some things you should know. Vaccines are great but not perfect. Unvaccinated don't make up 100% of the covid hospital patients, or even all of the ICU occupants, just the vast majority. The vaccinated in there are typically the immune-compromised or other health challenged. You can google it, you don't have to worry about trusting my "frequent claims".

Their vaccine lowers their probability of getting sick. My vaccine lowers my probability of transmitting it to them. It also depends on the prevalence in the community, whether the community is vaccinated, whether they are using NPIs, etc. Perfect? No. Improve the odds? Yes. All those things roll into figuring out the risk and deciding on what to accept.

I know you've heard of the swiss cheese model in aviation. It applies to Covid too (and everything else involving risk).

 

[SlickAg]

Frankly, if we can't agree on the basic facts, of course we're not going to agree on the inferences. When you say things like, "If vaccines are so good that..." or "Now you say they're vaxed so you're no threat..." you're starting out with a false strawman, so your whole sequence of questions are nonsensical.

Here are some things you should know. Vaccines are great but not perfect. Unvaccinated don't make up 100% of the covid hospital patients, or even all of the ICU occupants, just the vast majority. The vaccinated in there are typically the immune-compromised or other health challenged. You can google it, you don't have to worry about trusting my "frequent claims".

Their vaccine lowers their probability of getting sick. My vaccine lowers my probability of transmitting it to them. It also depends on the prevalence in the community, whether the community is vaccinated, whether they are using NPIs, etc. Perfect? No. Improve the odds? Yes. All those things roll into figuring out the risk and deciding on what to accept.

I know you've heard of the swiss cheese model in aviation. It applies to Covid too (and everything else involving risk).

View attachment 32849

Is this how New Zealand “got rid” of covid?

 

[scoolbubba]

The hole in the masks cheese is not to scale, since we know that this virus spreads predominantly through aerosols and not via large droplets. The hole should be about 97% of the cheese, as though my kid folded it in half and ate everything but the rind.

The hole in the vaccine slice should also be quite a bit larger:

Studies confirm waning immunity from Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine

Two real-world studies published Wednesday confirm that the immune protection offered by two doses of Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine drops off after two months or so, although protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death remains strong.

www.cnn.com

2 months for precipitous drop offs in protection. Maybe if these weren't rushed into production under the rollout with #fakenews numbers like 96% efficacy, we'd have known that they were pretty much useless for preventing infection within a few months.

But sure, the experts know best and would never lie to us.

 

[Mirage]

Frankly, if we can't agree on the basic facts, of course we're not going to agree on the inferences. When you say things like, "If vaccines are so good that..." or "Now you say they're vaxed so you're no threat..." you're starting out with a false strawman, so your whole sequence of questions are nonsensical.
View attachment 32849

So you don't agree with my basic facts, which I stole from your own posts, that the vax is so good that very few vaccinated are in the hospitals, and that you and your coworker are both vaxed so you can get back to normal (as you stated a couple posts ago)? Those facts, that you stated previously, we can't agree on?

I think we can. I think that you find yourself cornered by your own lacking logic and instead of admitting it you're scrambling to look for a way out by saying we can't agree on the basics or finding some small point to nit pick and avoid substantial questions.

 

[taxi1]

vax is so good that very few vaccinated are in the hospitals

That’s a true statement

you and your coworker are both vaxed so you can get back to normal

He comes in to work where everyone is vaxxed, so within that bubble… normal.

substantial questions.

I didn’t see any, at least that didn’t start with a false premise.