CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz

[Treetop Flyer]

Must have missed the intentional or not part

I missed your apology for being a racist.

 

[DanMa1156]

What do you want me to tell you?

You want me to go through my childhood and list out how I grew up without access to good education and healthcare?

How sometimes my parents had to choose between seeing a doctor for one of our injuries or being able to feed us for the month?

Not having money or adequate health care for my family. My mom and dad not being able to see doctors either cause the money aspect. My mom being mistaken for the housekeeper when we went to the grocery store. My dad couldn't find work either.

Its was your basic growing up poor.

And then when your parents are poor and you are older you have to choose between moving on with your own life or abandoning your parents who sacrificed for your.

And I didnt even have it that bad compared to my friends.

But compared to my wife who comes from money and went straight to college funded by her parents and then got a good job I had way more struggles through my life.

So yea its easy to compare and see that it was way harder on me.

10x is a quantifiable number and I will admit that being able to quantify it is difficult but it is a very night and day experience compared to my wife who came from money.

I mean, yeah, I empathize with you, and certainly some racist policies likely impacted that lot you were born into, but those aren't exclusive to being black. But I'd say the same thing about my dad who was the descendant of recent immigrants, was one of six children in a household full of relatives from multiple generations as was common with Italian immigrants at the time. They picked dandelions to fry up, ate grits as a main meal, and always had a family garden for vegetables. Red meat was uncommon. He has worked since he was 14 or 15, then worked for a company that offered to help him pay for college, which he did at night with a young baby (me), and a wife who was also working full time (I spent a lot of time with my Grandmother for my first few years of life).

Fast forward 18 years and I worked my tail off in school, sports, and extracurriculars to get to USNA and commission, partially because I knew my folks didn't have much, if any saved up for college for me or my sibling. Fast forward another 14 years, and guess what? Dad's still working, and my mom retired due to the pandemic, but is considering going back to work now that she's vaccinated. It's not like they are killing it, but they are fine and will be able to retire because they worked hard and spent less than they took in. I just don't see how you're going to quantify your argument against any number of other poor families that lift themselves out of poverty and you seem unable to directly tie it to systemically racist policies. Sure, my parents have been called WOPs/Dagos/Ginzos/Guineas/Guidos/Paesanos before but that didn't stop them from grinding, and while my dad has never been a part of the country club crowd, he worked as a groundskeeper at one for a number of years.

Ironically enough, my grandfather lost a promotion at the same club and was told he lost it because "they needed a diversity hire to appease some people." True or not, it's what he got told. Wasn't mad: the guy was his best friend, who happened to be black and he was happy for him and happy to get to work with him.

So, cool. We all have stories.

 

[HAL Pilot]

You think this would be a photo from a long time ago. It isn't. This is from recent enough that if a Captain served a 30+ years hed have only retired in the 1990s/early 2000s.

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There is absolutely no contexts with that picture to give a timeline. My guess is that it is from before the civil rights movement.

Rememder I grew up on those socialist military bases using socialist military medical care at socialist military facilities? Never saw anything like that. It’s a picture that is from at leadt 50 years ago. Past history and nothing to do with today.

 

[nodropinufaka]

I mean, yeah, I empathize with you, and certainly some racist policies likely impacted that lot you were born into, but those aren't exclusive to being black. But I'd say the same thing about my dad who was the descendant of recent immigrants, was one of six children in a household full of relatives from multiple generations as was common with Italian immigrants at the time. They picked dandelions to fry up, ate grits as a main meal, and always had a family garden for vegetables. Red meat was uncommon. He has worked since he was 14 or 15, then worked for a company that offered to help him pay for college, which he did at night with a young baby (me), and a wife who was also working full time (I spent a lot of time with my Grandmother for my first few years of life).

Fast forward 18 years and I worked my tail off in school, sports, and extracurriculars to get to USNA and commission, partially because I knew my folks didn't have much, if any saved up for college for me or my sibling. Fast forward another 14 years, and guess what? Dad's still working, and my mom retired due to the pandemic, but is considering going back to work now that she's vaccinated. It's not like they are killing it, but they are fine and will be able to retire because they worked hard and spent less than they took in. I just don't see how you're going to quantify your argument against any number of other poor families that lift themselves out of poverty and you seem unable to directly tie it to systemically racist policies. Sure, my parents have been called WOPs/Dagos/Ginzos/Guineas/Guidos/Paesanos before but that didn't stop them from grinding, and while my dad has never been a part of the country club crowd, he worked as a groundskeeper at one for a number of years.

Ironically enough, my grandfather lost a promotion at the same club and was told he lost it because "they needed a diversity hire to appease some people." True or not, it's what he got told. Wasn't mad: the guy was his best friend, who happened to be black and he was happy for him and happy to get to work with him.

So, cool. We all have stories.

I thought I was clear on the racist policies previously.

Grandparents didn’t get to make money. Worked picking fruit at the hands of plantation owners.

Unable to unionize because of their race (there’s one policy) and not until the legislation of 1933 were they finally able to unionize. That set them back pay wise 30-40 years compared to others. They finally got fair and equal pay they were behind everyone else affecting their ability to pass wealth down and own a home.

Then when trying to join the Navy they only offered jobs as cooks (another policy). So that doesn’t offer them much opportunity for work.

Those are just 2 policies off the top of my head that were legislated United States policies that caused me to grow up differently then my peers.

 

[nodropinufaka]

There is absolutely no contexts with that picture to give a timeline. My guess is that it is from before the civil rights movement.

Rememder I grew up on those socialist military bases using socialist military medical care at socialist military facilities? Never saw anything like that. It’s a picture that is from at leadt 50 years ago. Past history and nothing to do with today.

Past history has everything to do with today. How would it not?

 

[DanMa1156]

Those are just 2 policies off the top of my head that were legislated United States policies that caused me to grow up differently then some of my peers.

FIFY.

I at least understand where you're coming from. With that said, I don't think you can quantify your level of work ethic compared to your peers and it would be wrong to assume they didn't have their own struggles.

If there are present day laws or policies that hold back minorities, I want to have that discussion to hear how I can be a change for good by repealing and/or replacing them.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Past history has everything to do with today. How would it not?

In that it is past history that resulted in the laws that prevent it from happening today, yes it had something to do with today. But this past history does not preclude any the opportunities available today.

Once again you are trying to change the context of my post to fit your narrative.

 

[nodropinufaka]

I mean I admitted that 10x was a difficult number to quantify and I fully understand that others had similar or worst experiences who were all races.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I thought I was clear on the racist policies previously.

Grandparents didn’t get to make money. Worked picking fruit at the hands of plantation owners.

Unable to unionize because of their race (there’s one policy) and not until the legislation of 1933 were they finally able to unionize. That set them back pay wise 30-40 years compared to others. They finally got fair and equal pay they were behind everyone else affecting their ability to pass wealth down and own a home.

Then when trying to join the Navy they only offered jobs as cooks (another policy). So that doesn’t offer them much opportunity for work.

Those are just 2 policies off the top of my head that were legislated United States policies that caused me to grow up differently then my peers.

How many generations does it take to make a rational argument? My parents were the first in their families to go to college. Coal mines were the occupation for the immigrant great grandparents.

When will you admit you lied about a list of people being racist? Can you admit that you judged them based on your prejudice?

 

[nodropinufaka]

How many generations does it take to make a rational argument? My parents were the first in their families to go to college. Coal mines were the occupation for the immigrant great grandparents.

When will you admit you lied about a list of people being racist? Can you admit that you judged them based on your prejudice?

But I didn’t. I judged them for their policies that disproportionately effected minorities whether by design or not.

and yea, you prob faced some problems stemming from systemic racism too based on the history that I know of.

 

[grodonfreeman]

Reagans war on drugs.

It gave harsher punishments for crack cocaine possession (used more commonly by Black defendants) than powder cocaine (used more commonly by white defendants) – even though it’s two versions of the same drug.

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/drugpolicy/cracksinsystem_20061025.pdf

It took until 2010 for Obama to stop that.

Now, this is a good retort. No question Blacks served disproportionately. Yes, the two forms are the same AFAIK. But at the time, was there racist intent? Did they know the two forms were the same? I don't know & I'd like to look into it. I try to judge the past thru the context of the times however. Even if there was no intent, it could be said that it was at least a defacto racist law.

I do know Trump fixed the problem with the Criminal Reform Act of 2019. It was called the "First Step Act." The bill not only reduced sentencing but provided a "good time credit fix" (unless youre Bubba, IDK how any1 can have a good time in prison) Anyway, the issue seems to be resolved. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/depa...mates-under-first-step-act-publishes-risk-and

Before that, Obama passed the Fair Sentencing Act in 2010. That only reduced sentencing from 100:1 down to 18:1 which was still very high IMO. But, it was way better than the original law.

BTW Joe Biden took credit for the 1994 crime bill which was another tough sentencing law: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...-biden-1994-crime-bill-law-mass-incarceration

 

[nodropinufaka]

In that it is past history that resulted in the laws that prevent it from happening today, yes it had something to do with today. But this past history does not preclude any the opportunities available today.

Once again you are trying to change the context of my post to fit your narrative.

But that isn’t true though. One policy doesn’t change and then everything stops.

Right now there’s a large number of people locked up Marijuana crimes that is now legal.

The crack crime was just recently signed in 2010. Meaning there’s kids that are teenagers whose parents may be locked up while someone who used coke got probation.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

There is absolutely no contexts with that picture to give a timeline. My guess is that it is from before the civil rights movement.

Rememder I grew up on those socialist military bases using socialist military medical care at socialist military facilities? Never saw anything like that. It’s a picture that is from at leadt 50 years ago. Past history and nothing to do with today.

Nothing to do with today? I'm not even old and that picture is from my Dad's generation. How can you sit here with a straight face and say my parent's generation had equal opportunity when signs like that existed?

A parent's opportunity directly affects their offspring. The idea that the law changed and the playing field was leveled instantly is ridiculous.

 

[SELRES_AMDO]

Now, this is a good retort. No question Blacks served disproportionately. Yes, the two forms are the same AFAIK. But at the time, was there racist intent? I don't know & I'd like to look into it. Even if there was no intent, it could be said that it was at least a defacto racist law.

If you think there wasn't racist intent then I have a bridge to sell you...

 

[nodropinufaka]

Serious question:

if a policy disproportionately affects minorities whether by design or not. Is it racist?

I think it is. But if im wrong I’ll admit im wrong.