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Can you shave your head at OCS?

revan1013

Death by Snoo Snoo
pilot
We were told by one of the DI's that Navy OCS was more difficult than Marine OCS - but I have absolutely NO experience with Marine OCS so that's based purely off what this one DI's opinion was. From the stories of those who came before it sounds like the physical difficulty of Navy OCS has decreased somewhat in recent years - rabdo, injuries, and a significant percentage of each class rolling used to be the norm according to legend, while none of those things are common place anymore. It might be higher standards for entry, it might be the program has gotten softer, it might be something completely different. All I know is that regardless of how much it changed it was an unpleasant experience - "the most fun you never want to have again."

I went through from Oct 09-Feb 10. We were in the middle of a shift from the PT-style of OCS to a more academic-style. It was called the "Way Ahead" and the class I rolled into after RLP was the guinea pig class. Although I'm sure the PT isn't as rough as it was during the AOCS days, it could still get nasty. A lot of it depended on the DI/Chief. We had whole classes get sick, with tons of people getting rolled from injuries or medical problems. Yeah they try hard not to make half of the class roll, but it was still happening. Half of my original class was very sick, and quite a few people got pneumonia, one I know rolled into our class because he had gotten rhabdo.

I have no idea what happened to the "Way Ahead" program they tried to implement, but there was definitely an attempt to "Navy-ize" OCS and tone down the physical aspect. They were trying to emphasize more academics and a lot of the DIs were visibly upset about the changes. Though some chiefs were much harder on us than the DIs.
 

BackOrdered

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I see the point of the changes. I never really thought about it, but OCS does indeed make you a more obedient service member than a well rounded leader.

The DIs' frustration is understandable. Some of the stuff they removed from ***** the Destroyer's class cheapen the experience.
 

Angry

NFO in Jax
None
You mean that stuff doesn't happen anymore? Damn. We had a guy in my class at AOCS (maybe more than one) that forgot to lock his wall locker, and everything got tossed. It was called a hurricane, and it left the room a mess, including the foot powder all over. It was a fairly frequent occurence at AOCS. The real test was to see how the roommates and the rest of the class reacted; whether they all pulled together to get the shit cleaned up, or instead made the guy feel even worse by dumping on him for forgetting to secure the lock. We had guys in my class (myself included) that got physically jacked up by the DIs; i.e. grabbed by the front of the shirt and thrown against the wall with your feet off the floor. I would be surprised if that still happened. Having a DI scream in someone's face was pretty much an hourly occurence, at least in the first half of the program (and AOCS was 15 weeks long, because all the API stuff was integrated into the program). Surely the DIs still get up close and personal with a loud voice, right?

Some of this still happens - getting hurricaned is a regular occurrence (my class went something like three straight weeks with a hurricane every day) and there is definitely the up close and personal time. Physically though they won't lay a hand on you to discipline you, they will just RPT you into the ground.

Things that we know have gone away: bringing sand or leaves into the pway, mattresses being stacked on the football field (apparently it rained when that happened once), getting PTed 10 minutes before/30 minutes following chow, and any RPT sessions longer than 10 mins in a given hour. I'm sure there are others I just can't remember them off the top of my head. I can personally attest to the SUYA hose still being used, although only when its above 60 degrees or something like that. I was assured by my DI before I left however that for every activity that is "retired" class team comes up with something new that works just as well.

There was definitely an emphasis this was a NAVY program, not a USMC one, and a lot of our classes and briefs reflected that. That being said, my SCPO was more than capable of dishing out discipline when the situation called for it so we didn't suffer from a lack of time with the green side - if anything we feared him more because we knew the only time he would put us on our face is when we REALLY deserved it, and those RPTs were the worst.

Personally I took a lot of value out of the interactions with the DI's, especially in Candio phase when you can actually speak to them and learn from them. I know their leadership styles won't translate directly into what I'm doing in my career, but it was helpful to hear how their experiences leading and being led by officers affected them. At the very least you learn a healthy respect for the USMC, and if you're lucky you get some mentorship on the relationship between junior officers and senior enlisted that supplements what your Class CPO provides. While it took a long time to earn those interactions, I wouldn't have wanted to go through OCS without the DI's.
 

BUDU

Member
I see the point of the changes. I never really thought about it, but OCS does indeed make you a more obedient service member than a well rounded leader.

We could tell our class officer felt that way pretty strongly. He even instructed us to speak in first person around him (after the first few weeks) and during ORLP. His reasoning was, "If I wanted an automaton I would have built one."
 

revan1013

Death by Snoo Snoo
pilot
Things that we know have gone away: bringing sand or leaves into the pway... I wouldn't have wanted to go through OCS without the DI's.

They don't make them fill their pockets and knowledge bags with the sand from the Rose Garden anymore? I still have sand in one of my old bags.

And agreed on the Marines. I have tons of respect for my DI. As far as I'm concerned, one of the most upstanding guys I've ever known. I earned most of my beatings from him... lol.
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
What I think is hilarious is that class teams read these forums and probably laugh their asses off at threads like these. Best for future candidates to STFU lest they get special attention.
 

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
What I think is hilarious is that class teams read these forums and probably laugh their asses off at threads like these. Best for future candidates to STFU lest they get special attention.

One of my former Gunnies is there as a DI now. When he got his orders, one of the first things I did for him was to show him this site and give him the gouge.

All of you current candidates can thank me later.
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
One of my former Gunnies is there as a DI now. When he got his orders, one of the first things I did for him was to show him this site and give him the gouge.

All of you current candidates can thank me later.

Evil, yet delicious. Well done.
 

BackOrdered

Well-Known Member
Contributor
What I think is hilarious is that class teams read these forums and probably laugh their asses off at threads like these. Best for future candidates to STFU lest they get special attention.

No doubt.

On another site a Gunny created an account and terrorized a topic full of OCS nasties-to-be asking stupid questions, claiming he knew which user was which based off their post history. It was hilarious.
 

Sonog

Well-Known Member
pilot
Stupid question inbound: It's been advised to "blend in" and "stay under the radar", but I'm assuming that shouldn't apply to PT or opportunities of leadership? Does it pay to be a winner in PT or events or should you try to stay with the crowd? And if there's an opportunity to step up and lead your class/room/group/whatever without being "that guy", should you do it?
 

SynixMan

HKG Based Artificial Excrement Pilot
pilot
Contributor
Don't sandbag on PT just to not be noticed. They will notice. Put out 100%. If you're a PT god, there's probably a good chance you be put in a leadership billet for it, as the staff respects physical performance. Just don't F it away. Clear as mud?
 

Sonog

Well-Known Member
pilot
Don't sandbag on PT just to not be noticed. They will notice. Put out 100%. If you're a PT god, there's probably a good chance you be put in a leadership billet for it, as the staff respects physical performance. Just don't F it away. Clear as mud?

Very clear, sir. Thanks for the advice.
 

yakboyslim

Well-Known Member
None
They don't make them fill their pockets and knowledge bags with the sand from the Rose Garden anymore? I still have sand in one of my old bags.

They still do, just not explicitly. I don't know if they can't, or they just don't, but noone was told to fill their pockets while I was there. That being said, they can just put you on your face, on your back, on your face... until your pockets are full anyway.
 

revan1013

Death by Snoo Snoo
pilot
Hey Synix, I think you just got called sir. *evilgrin* OCS doesn't seem that long ago!

And thanks Yakboyslim. Makes me a little sad to hear it though. The Rose Garden is so awesome, it's worth bringing it to your p-way.
 
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