ASTB No Longer Part of Service Selection Equation

[jai5w4]

I dont agree with this change because if you screw up you screw up. Plain and simple. If you make a stupid decision in the a/c, you will kill yourself and possibly others. We are in NROTC to become naval officers in the Navy/Marine Corps and this is our training. The girl you were talking about earlier, yes it sucks for her but she made the stupid choice to let that happen. Flying F/A-18's at Mach 1.5+ demands perfection, nothing less. If you cant get that in NROTC, you wont get it in the future.

Your CO is nice too. We have had these same type of issues in our unit and when it happens, you get kicked out, no questions asked

I agree with your statement above, you make a stupid decision, you pay for it. No exceptions. Our new CO sounds a little more like yours, the female mid had the party during our old CO's last year and he didn't do much other than give her less PNS points because of it...so in a way, I guess that is paying for it, in the end she didn't get the ship or station she wanted, so she paid.

jai5w4

 

[jai5w4]

"Apparently some of the more senior PNS's (20-25+ years, and theres only a handfull with that much time in as NROTC CO's)"

That doesn't make any sense. All NROTC COs are O-6s, which means they have pretty much w/o a doubt more than 25 years of service. And there is a board this fall for December graduates, my package goes in this August. I wonder if this new formula will be the one they use for Dec grads, b/c our LT hasn't said anything about it. He's the type of guy who would let us know if anything new was coming.

I'm just telling you there are CO's out there with more influence than others and apparently our CO is one of those guys and he brought up the topic at the conference, others had similar situations with their Mids, and they made a change. Like I said b/f, I may be getting the years of service mixed up or whatever, but it doesn't change the fact that the change is going to be implemented.

Hmm, who's going to know about this change first?... the CO that suggested the change in the first place and that came up with the idea?, or the LT assigned to your unit?....nuf said.

j

 

[red_stang65]

Wait...I'm still a little confused.

ROTC MIDS don't have to take the ASTB at all?

Or do they still need to take it and only get 4/5/5 <or whatever the min scores are>? Mind re-clarifying for me, the slow poke?

 

[jai5w4]

Wait...I'm still a little confused.

ROTC MIDS don't have to take the ASTB at all?

Or do they still need to take it and only get 4/5/5 <or whatever the min scores are>? Mind re-clarifying for me, the slow poke?

Right, still take it and score a minimum to qualify for aviation. After that the ASTB is NOT a variable in the selection formula like the old, 40% of your package was ASTB scores...no longer the case, they are 0% of your package.

Hope I didn't confuse you further.

jai5w4

 

[pennst8]

Hmm, who's going to know about this change first?... the CO that suggested the change in the first place and that came up with the idea?, or the LT assigned to your unit?....nuf said.

Yeah I mean who are you going to believe, a staff member from your unit who gets the official word... or some guy on the internet who says he's a mid?

Not that I doubt you're a mid jai5w4... or that your XO told you that... I'm just saying that this is a public board and any clown with an internet connection can get on here (Integer1, PAO, etc).

Anyway I'll hold out for official word on the changes but thanks for letting us all know about it.

In the mean time I guess I should start practicing to get my PFA score up. I don't think my PNS points are going to change anytime soon unless I do something really stupid... but I didn't exactly max the last PFA.

 

[jai5w4]

Yeah I mean who are you going to believe, a staff member from your unit who gets the official word... or some guy on the internet who says he's a mid?

Not that I doubt you're a mid jai5w4... or that your XO told you that... I'm just saying that this is a public board and any clown with an internet connection can get on here (Integer1, PAO, etc).

Anyway I'll hold out for official word on the changes but thanks for letting us all know about it.

In the mean time I guess I should start practicing to get my PFA score up. I don't think my PNS points are going to change anytime soon unless I do something really stupid... but I didn't exactly max the last PFA.

It's all about technique on the pushups and situps, man...technique. Learn what works for you, while still following the rules and you can max them out every time, especially the crunches. Then with those maxed you can run a decently fast pace and get an outstanding.

I understand where you guys are coming from. This is, after all, the Internet we are talking about.

Good luck to you.

jai5w4

 

[red_stang65]

Thanks for clearing up my questions, jai5w4. It all seems clear to me now :graduate_

 

[jai5w4]

Thanks for clearing up my questions, jai5w4. It all seems clear to me now :graduate_

:icon_zbee :icon_smil

 

[Chris Hill]

What "bad info" are you refering to?

This:

Apparently some of the more senior PNS's (20-25+ years, and theres only a handfull with that much time in as NROTC CO's)...

Maybe you just got one bit of info wrong, but my point was that your word on Navy policy regarding commissioning seems less reliable when you say things like that. Again, not saying you're wrong, just that I'm going to wait for official word. No hard feelings or anything. I just disagree with the decision (assuming it's true), so I'm taking out my frustrations here. :banghead_ :jump_125: :icon_smil

I dont agree with this change because if you screw up you screw up. Plain and simple...

What the heck? So if someone isn't perfect they can't fly an aircraft? That is absolutely ridiculous if you think someone having an underage drinker at a party is synonymous with inability to fly an aircraft correctly.

Yes, we're expected to have high ethical standards as officers, including following the law. But you have to use common sense for every situation. Do we now ground pilots for speeding tickets?

If this formula (assuming it's correct) allows for more common sense in regards to situations like this, then that is a good change. Although I don't see how it will do that...

 

[Geese]

What the heck? So if someone isn't perfect they can't fly an aircraft? That is absolutely ridiculous if you think someone having an underage drinker at a party is synonymous with inability to fly an aircraft correctly.
...

Let me explain it this way; There are standards that I had to meet to become a flight instructor. If one person looks at it a certain way, it seems like I had to fly "perfect". That's why standards exist, if you meet them then great, but if you fall outside of the standard, then you pay the consequences.

Or in another sense, you better be damn near perfect to take an aircraft down to minimums in weather, wind sheer, crosswinds, and the other effects that they throw in. I've had a lot of training and I even got to take a level D 737 simulator down to mins a few times in the above situation where the instructor made it as hard as possible. You better be flying damn near perfect to not hear all the "WINDSHEER WINDSHEER" and "GLIDESCOPE GLIDESLOPE" warnings going off, it's not easy, it takes near-perfection, and that comes form hard work, dedication, and discipline. If you can't hack that, then find another job. Don't take this the wrong way, but this topic is very close to aviation saftey and other themes where there is really no "wiggle room". We can't completely eliminate human error and the human factor, but we have high standards in a constant battle to minimize them.

 

[viper1984]

Is their a web site that this information can be verified on?? I have searched through the NSTC and CNET web site and found nothing on commissioning formulas. Where is your XO getting this info, and what school are you from? Also, assuming that this new frmoula is correct, do they look at your last PFA or your PFA history?

 

[Chris Hill]

Let me explain it this way; There are standards that I had to meet to become a flight instructor. If one person looks at it a certain way, it seems like I had to fly "perfect". That's why standards exist, if you meet them then great, but if you fall outside of the standard, then you pay the consequences...

Right. I totally understand. I was just saying that I don't think small lapses in ETHICAL decisions (i.e., aforementioned situation) corresponds to someone not being able to fly a plane. No one is perfect in character, although we expect perfection in flying (2 entirely separate issues in my mind). Certainly bigger mistakes (DUI, etc.) show problems in discipline, but I don't think we should start having extreme punishments for little mistakes.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[JIMMY]

Let me explain it this way; There are standards that I had to meet to become a flight instructor. If one person looks at it a certain way, it seems like I had to fly "perfect". That's why standards exist, if you meet them then great, but if you fall outside of the standard, then you pay the consequences.

Or in another sense, you better be damn near perfect to take an aircraft down to minimums in weather, wind sheer, crosswinds, and the other effects that they throw in. I've had a lot of training and I even got to take a level D 737 simulator down to mins a few times in the above situation where the instructor made it as hard as possible. You better be flying damn near perfect to not hear all the "WINDSHEER WINDSHEER" and "GLIDESCOPE GLIDESLOPE" warnings going off, it's not easy, it takes near-perfection, and that comes form hard work, dedication, and discipline. If you can't hack that, then find another job. Don't take this the wrong way, but this topic is very close to aviation saftey and other themes where there is really no "wiggle room". We can't completely eliminate human error and the human factor, but we have high standards in a constant battle to minimize them.

Man, I understand your point, and its cool that you got to fly a 737 sim, but get off your huffy bike. I know you never actually said you flew the approach perfect, but its implied... and i think you are a liar. I just dont see how you could fly a 737 in imc down to mins with wind shear and a x-wind if you've only flown it a couple times. Also, you're going to hear the windshear warning regardless of how well you fly in that situation. What you smokin man.

 

[vegita1220]

Anybody who's been a midshipman/officer candidate/etc. and didn't drink underage raise your (virtual) hand...

Maybe you really are a perfect aviator. I still have no idea how that relates to having somebody drinking underage at your party. If that's seriously a factor in judging the future of midshipmen, we have some hard times ahead.

 

[JIMMY]

agreed