Someone gets it!!!!! Someone please rep this gentleman for doing independent research and actually listening to advice!!!
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- Thread starter jcrummy717
- Start date
Someone gets it!!!!! Someone please rep this gentleman for doing independent research and actually listening to advice!!!
Fair enough sir, I do agree with you on that. and Yes obviously if BUPERS or CNATRA would say something like that it would be a more legit argument.
Ultimately though, I still thought it was bullshit for them to say something like that. Esp. given their command level position.
With all due respect just as you seen "Block checkers" I watched some of the dirtiest , shittiest sailors given CAP's not on performance but on pity. I did not mean for that argument to come out as specious either. I apologize for making it seem that way. And that is why I stated later on that 99% of the people who do apply get their on their own merit. I am not knocking being in a staff position and getting the just recognition you deserve whatsoever. Hell, I am all for it!
The sailors I was speaking of in particular are the ones who slip through the cracks.. They know how to put on the "good ol boy" face and play the network hard just to get to a position of power because they are hungry for it and basically be paper SOQ's. To give you a gauge of the type of person I was trying to point out altogether picture this.
ET2(SW) Douchebag.. Knows how to play the Navy game well.. Comes to work in a squared away uniform...Yes Sir, No Sir, Yes Chief , No Chief.. Get's involved in command activities, Is going to college part time. Now nothing is wrong with this yet.. And I am not contending this.. What is wrong is what I left out altogether.... What has this person done IN THEIR RATE?
I've watched quite a few sailors who did not know their rate any better then a 5 year old yet they were busy doing all this other random stuff to hide or sweep under the deck the fact that ultimately they were just lazy individuals and could not hold their own weight in the shop. I am hoping Sir you can see where I can formulate some discontent for individuals such as these.
In closing I apologize sir for my hasty post. I guess I did not convey it well and maybe brought out the wrong message with what I was trying to say with that statement.. I do agree with everything you said that I quoted you on. My main gripe was the scheisty individuals who don't really have the commitment and the drive to do it. They are just there for the fast train to power
I don't know about your previous experiences but having sat on STA-21 boards we recommended the best candidates, no matter what sex, race or how much ass they kissed.
I think you are taking your very small and limited view and assuming that the entire program is like that. It ain't.
Dirtiest, shittiest sailors given a CAP? Never seen it happen. Maybe they were guys you thought were shitbags, but the only guys I've seen CAP'ed were squared-away guys who PNA'ed through no fault of their own (usually because their rate was too overmanned, and in any other rate they would have advanced).
Now, to take your example - what you're saying is you're disgusted that there are guys who get picked up for officer programs because they show up looking sharp, are respectful to the khaki and get involved in activities outside the command but aren't as smart in rate as you? And despite the extra time and energy they spend on their uniforms and community activities, they're really lazy shitbags?
So, to sum up: ET2(SW) Douchebag is a squared-away, sharp-looking, resepctful guy who was at least smart enough in rate and hard-working enough to get his ESWS pin and make 2nd class, plus volunteers in the community and apparently really wants to be an officer. You tell me how exactly a board should know that, according to you, he doesn't deserve to be an officer.
You may be smarter than him, but that doesn't mean you were a better petty officer, or that you're more qualified to wear khaki. I've had plenty of "too smart for their own good" guys working for me - "Chief's an idiot, I'm trying to help him, why won't he listen to me?" "Bob's just sucking up to the officers because he wants to be one, he's really useless in the shop."
Believe it or not, khaki really do know who pulls their weight in the shop and who just looks good on paper. You may "know a guy" about whom that's not true, but your exception doesn't prove your argument.
You're right, some people get into officer programs who shouldn't... that's hardly news. You haven't been in on the "behind the scenes" part of the programs, so it's understandbale that your perceptions may have been colored by some bad experiences. But don't go telling the hopefuls and wannabes that you know how the system really works, and that it rewards suckups at the expense of quality. I'm the last guy to defend the good ol' Navy Way (ask my last two skippers), and I'm telling you: you're wrong, and it's a bullshit argument.
LOL...
First off Im glad you havent seen it but I have. I watched a guy who was on the verge of high year tenure as an E-4 who did noting but come into work, drink coffee and do random non-technical things get CAP'd to E-5 over quite a few people in the entire department that busted their asses way more.. And just for the record I will be the first to tell you No, I did not feel that I deserved at CAP so you don't get the wrong idea.. the other people in question were other sailors I knew of in the department.. I am not that full of myself....
I understand full and well that CAPs DO go to shit hot sailors..and I HAVE seen people get them who went well above and beyond.. I am not that cynical. I KNOW that the Navy does actually reward good sailors...
And once again for the third time... I KNOW that a good lot of the applicants for STA-21 DO get there on their own merit. I was making my points towards the ones that slip through the cracks. I apologize for any misunderstanding that I gave to that in my posts.
As for the rest of my argument and posts.... I'll shut up because obviously my argument is null and void. You are correct, my example may be one of limited view. I was just sharing what I saw before. But for all intensive purposes Ill stop before I put my foot in my ass even further then it already it is because obviously you are going to dissect what I say even more. I never once claimed to be high and mighty or pompus in terms of knowing my rate or what I did for the shops I served. I was just saying I have seen people scamming the system hard and it really sucks to see that. But like you said sir, people slipping through the cracks is not new news.
As for Example ET2.. I by no means meant he/she was dumb in terms of technical knowledge. I meant that they absolutely did the bare minimum in terms of in-rate work Because they spent all their time doing other things. So ultimately the division has to pick up that slack... But once again we are obviously not going to see eye to eye on this so I will leave it at that.
In closing I was just giving my two cents as to what I saw.. As negative as it was..it is what I saw. I did not mean it in any way to steer away hopefuls or wannabes.. But I guess it appears to be that way. And I even repeated consistently that I do not want this to be a deciding factor.
So in closing I'll stop before I get more wrecked then I already have about my post..I am not trying to make enemies or piss anyone off.. So I will shut up, concede and agree sir. My argument is bullshit and I am wrong.
First off Im glad you havent seen it but I have. I watched a guy who was on the verge of high year tenure as an E-4 who did noting but come into work, drink coffee and do random non-technical things get CAP'd to E-5 over quite a few people in the entire department that busted their asses way more.. And just for the record I will be the first to tell you No, I did not feel that I deserved at CAP so you don't get the wrong idea.. the other people in question were other sailors I knew of in the department.. I am not that full of myself....
I understand full and well that CAPs DO go to shit hot sailors..and I HAVE seen people get them who went well above and beyond.. I am not that cynical. I KNOW that the Navy does actually reward good sailors...
And once again for the third time... I KNOW that a good lot of the applicants for STA-21 DO get there on their own merit. I was making my points towards the ones that slip through the cracks. I apologize for any misunderstanding that I gave to that in my posts.
As for the rest of my argument and posts.... I'll shut up because obviously my argument is null and void. You are correct, my example may be one of limited view. I was just sharing what I saw before. But for all intensive purposes Ill stop before I put my foot in my ass even further then it already it is because obviously you are going to dissect what I say even more. I never once claimed to be high and mighty or pompus in terms of knowing my rate or what I did for the shops I served. I was just saying I have seen people scamming the system hard and it really sucks to see that. But like you said sir, people slipping through the cracks is not new news.
As for Example ET2.. I by no means meant he/she was dumb in terms of technical knowledge. I meant that they absolutely did the bare minimum in terms of in-rate work Because they spent all their time doing other things. So ultimately the division has to pick up that slack... But once again we are obviously not going to see eye to eye on this so I will leave it at that.
In closing I was just giving my two cents as to what I saw.. As negative as it was..it is what I saw. I did not mean it in any way to steer away hopefuls or wannabes.. But I guess it appears to be that way. And I even repeated consistently that I do not want this to be a deciding factor.
So in closing I'll stop before I get more wrecked then I already have about my post..I am not trying to make enemies or piss anyone off.. So I will shut up, concede and agree sir. My argument is bullshit and I am wrong.
AlphaTango
New Member
This guy sounds a bit disgruntled about not getting picked up for STA-21. You lost bro, deal with it. Out of the 64 people currently in BOOST headed to NSI there are only 19 non white males. Have fun in college writing your senior thesis on how affirmative action ruined your life.
I must have caught all the gentlemen on my board at the end of happy hour!
They probably just gun-decked it to get back to the bar. That is the only explanation I can come up with on how you slipped through the cracks.
ahh BOOZT...what fun. Wait until you guys get to see Newport during the summer...it's like night and day bro. Have Fun!!! (Check out the West Deck and reggae sundays at Dockside)
First of all, I want to say that I know nothing about STA-21 Selections. You have to realize that a STA-21 board only has the applicant packages/service records to look at, thats all. They don't know the applicants, they haven't worked with them, they aren't familiar with them as people.
Regarding your comments about, "its all about who you know". I would agree with that 100%. Now I'm not talking about the STA-21 board selections, because like I said, all they have to go by is the packages. However, as a prior AD2 Aircrewman, I can tell you that every command I have been with has had "good ol boys." One specific case in one of my commands was a junior enlisted sailor that was "drinking buddies" with a senior enlisted sailor. This guys job performance was average, no community service, wasn't going to college, and couldn't pass advancement exams. But since he was in good with the senior enlisted, he got plane captain of the quarter, sailor of the quarter, and was CAP'ed to E-5, when there were guys that deserved the CAP'ing far more than he did (number of shops Quals). This particular individual was even involved in two alohol related incidents out in town while with this command and still managed to pull this off.
Anyone who denies that this goes on in the navy is either blind or simply in denial. I've been there, done that, seen it. Please don't tell me it doesn't go on.
As far as STA-21 selections are concerned....Unfortunately the board will look at this type of guys package and service record, and it looks damn good with all these awrds in it. But thats not the boards fault, its the chain of command that lets this happen at the applicant's command.
I can't say as I've seen the dirtiest, shittiest sailors get CAP'd. What I have seen were some seriously average sailors that were Command Advanced because they complained enough about their rate being "locked up".
First it is not hard to PNA an advancement exam. Give me a random rating exam and 1 week to study and I will PNA it no problem. Getting a PNA on one of these exams doesn't mean one has done something stellar.
Second the way you described it out in the fleet is exactly the way I have seen it. Someone "can't" advance so they have it given to them. This is not what the Command Advancement Program was designed for.