I always sucked at algebra. But yea, that's what I was trying to say. That's the last time I attempt a math related analogy.
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- Thread starter jcrummy717
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I always sucked at algebra. But yea, that's what I was trying to say. That's the last time I attempt a math related analogy.
Here is the deal for the OP. While you are in DEP there isn't much to do. PT and maybe memorizing general orders is about it. In DEP there is the time and the opportunity to be indecisive WRT to changes in enlisted jobs or possible commissioning programs. When you get to Great Lakes there will be not be a single opportunity to do anything besides what you're told to do. You are looking at the very minimum 2 years before anyone is going to take you seriously and you could start putting a package together for STA-21. There are no promises with STA-21 either. The vast majority of the STA-21 OC's I have worked with went to NSI as E-5's or E-6's and had at least one warfare pin. Make the changes to your job now or be prepared to spend several years doing what you initially signed up to do.
christaphurrr
Member
I also signed as an Aircreman with the goal of becoming a pilot. I applied for NROTC, but it doesn't look like that is going to come through. Would it be better to release from DEP and go to college and join back up after I get my degree? Or would it be better to just stay in and apply for STA-21. My recruiter says to apply when you get to A school, because not many people put in for it and as long as you work hard and prove yourself you should get picked up. But that's recruiter talk. I'm looking for answers from people who are unbiased. I'm very confused right now.
There are only a handful of CTT's who fly, it is very competitive and even if you do well in school you still might not get a slot. CTI schooling is quite a bit longer usually and flying is only part time for them, while for the lucky few CTT's that are Aircrew it is a full time job and are fully integrated into the squadrons.
If your goal is to fly I would do AW like the others have suggested, if becoming a pilot is the goal then join up as an officer if possible. STA-21 is a very competitive program and probably harder than regular officer accessions.
I would not believe that info. Not a lot of slots but usually lots of motivated people, especially right out of boot camp.
To: christaphurrr
This is in response to the PM you sent me... I really feel I need to post this publicly though to get it off my chest as well as give my own personal experiences to STA-21. Please I implore everyone to take this all with a grain of salt.. these are only my experiences and these are things I seen personally.. I do not mean these to be generalizations or any type of direct attack on the program.. STA-21 is a GREAT program IF you can get picked up for it.. But anyhow here goes....
Alright here's the skinny and from what I seen a few of the other guys told ya the same thing I am about to.
If your ultimate goal is to be an officer and a pilot, GET OUT OF DEP. Honestly I do not know the rules or stipulations on how to go about doing that, But if your ultimate goal is dead set on being a Pilot then you need to goto college bud. I was given the same lines you were 6 years ago when I first enlisted. Your recruiter is either lieing to you or is SEVERELY misinformed on the STA-21 program. It is VERY competitive and very political in terms of selection and chances of getting it.
I do not mean to tell you this to discourage you or steer you away or be a negative Nancy but in my personal experiences (coming from someone who was turned down from the program) These are the types of people I have usually seen get picked up for STA-21
1. People with AT LEAST 2 years worth of college already (usually more.. Reason being, it is cheaper for the navy to pay for someone with less time left to get a degree then someone starting from scratch, much like I was at the time)
2. Usually people with "connections". The first thing you will learn about the Navy or any other organization honestly is that "It's all about hook ups and who you know" Not to mention for some reason the "whole person" concept does not seem to be taken into consideration too much for STA-21 like other civilian officer programs. (BDCP,OCS,NROTC) (I say this because aside from lack of college credits I was told multiple times my STA-21 package was solid gold, so needless to say I was a little appalled)
3. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Do not take offense to what I am about to say. But If you are a white male, your odds are even worse. I happen to be one and I was told blatantly and seriously by a few people that "I two things going against me. I am white and I am a male" (Both of these people happen to be CCC's btw) Now once again please before I get banned by the webmasters hear me out to my reasoning for posting this. When I did apply in 2003, I went to plenty of informational briefs on the program given both by my command as well as base I was on at the time. During these OFFICAL presentations (One of which I was told this when I asked a question at the end), there was always a slide saying "Minorites are encouraged to apply!" Now obivously I have no problem with this whatsoever and I never let it get me down (Hence I am out of the navy going to college so I can go BACK in , lol) But I just wanted to post this because I was curious if anyone else was ever told this too..
4. Just stating once again overall this is a VERY competitive program. It is arguably MUCH easier for random college student A. To get their shit together and put in a package for NROTC,OCS,BDCP and get accepted then it is for you to be an enlisted sailor and get picked up for STA-21. Keep in mind while you are enlisted and active duty.. Your job is NOT to be putting in a officer program application. It is to DO YOUR JOB, GET YOUR QUALS, and support the mission... Your STA-21 app is a sidejob which usually does tend to cut into working hours, and to keep it real with you most Chiefs are not too keen on the fact of you doing this because you are not focused 100% on your assigned tasks.
Once again this is just personal experience and perspective talking. I apologize if this has offended anyone. And if some of my comments are deemed inapporpriate, please send me a PM I will change them.
This is in response to the PM you sent me... I really feel I need to post this publicly though to get it off my chest as well as give my own personal experiences to STA-21. Please I implore everyone to take this all with a grain of salt.. these are only my experiences and these are things I seen personally.. I do not mean these to be generalizations or any type of direct attack on the program.. STA-21 is a GREAT program IF you can get picked up for it.. But anyhow here goes....
Alright here's the skinny and from what I seen a few of the other guys told ya the same thing I am about to.
If your ultimate goal is to be an officer and a pilot, GET OUT OF DEP. Honestly I do not know the rules or stipulations on how to go about doing that, But if your ultimate goal is dead set on being a Pilot then you need to goto college bud. I was given the same lines you were 6 years ago when I first enlisted. Your recruiter is either lieing to you or is SEVERELY misinformed on the STA-21 program. It is VERY competitive and very political in terms of selection and chances of getting it.
I do not mean to tell you this to discourage you or steer you away or be a negative Nancy but in my personal experiences (coming from someone who was turned down from the program) These are the types of people I have usually seen get picked up for STA-21
1. People with AT LEAST 2 years worth of college already (usually more.. Reason being, it is cheaper for the navy to pay for someone with less time left to get a degree then someone starting from scratch, much like I was at the time)
2. Usually people with "connections". The first thing you will learn about the Navy or any other organization honestly is that "It's all about hook ups and who you know" Not to mention for some reason the "whole person" concept does not seem to be taken into consideration too much for STA-21 like other civilian officer programs. (BDCP,OCS,NROTC) (I say this because aside from lack of college credits I was told multiple times my STA-21 package was solid gold, so needless to say I was a little appalled)
3. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Do not take offense to what I am about to say. But If you are a white male, your odds are even worse. I happen to be one and I was told blatantly and seriously by a few people that "I two things going against me. I am white and I am a male" (Both of these people happen to be CCC's btw) Now once again please before I get banned by the webmasters hear me out to my reasoning for posting this. When I did apply in 2003, I went to plenty of informational briefs on the program given both by my command as well as base I was on at the time. During these OFFICAL presentations (One of which I was told this when I asked a question at the end), there was always a slide saying "Minorites are encouraged to apply!" Now obivously I have no problem with this whatsoever and I never let it get me down (Hence I am out of the navy going to college so I can go BACK in , lol) But I just wanted to post this because I was curious if anyone else was ever told this too..
4. Just stating once again overall this is a VERY competitive program. It is arguably MUCH easier for random college student A. To get their shit together and put in a package for NROTC,OCS,BDCP and get accepted then it is for you to be an enlisted sailor and get picked up for STA-21. Keep in mind while you are enlisted and active duty.. Your job is NOT to be putting in a officer program application. It is to DO YOUR JOB, GET YOUR QUALS, and support the mission... Your STA-21 app is a sidejob which usually does tend to cut into working hours, and to keep it real with you most Chiefs are not too keen on the fact of you doing this because you are not focused 100% on your assigned tasks.
Once again this is just personal experience and perspective talking. I apologize if this has offended anyone. And if some of my comments are deemed inapporpriate, please send me a PM I will change them.
christaphurrr
Member
Thanks!
That helped out so much! For right now I have Aeronautical and Astronautical engineering as my chosen major for each school. Good major? Or should I actually choose piloting as my major?
That helped out so much! For right now I have Aeronautical and Astronautical engineering as my chosen major for each school. Good major? Or should I actually choose piloting as my major?
jcrummy717
New Member
I'm kinda getting frustrated with my recruiter. He's not wanting to change my job and is throwing the schpeal about how I can do it in boot. Any helpful advice on how to see my desired result i.e. getting AW?
Umm yeah you cant change your job in boot. Don't sign a contract unless your completely satisifed.. This is personal experience too.
YES there are some people reclassified in bootcamp..but this is more or less due to them not meeting requirements for some rates..or other type situations (Such as a deck seaman wanting to be a airman, etc) but thats really about it.
I signed up as an ET/FC because I was under the impression I would be working on computers and networking (this is what I was told..and honestly according to the old career sheet ET's USED to and some still do) But it is more or less the job of an IT. Well I did not find this out until bootcamp. and the RDC's will blantently tell you "How many of you were told by your recruiter you can change your job?" Then they will commence to say WRONG. PM me if you would like to discuss this some more.
First of all, congratulations on your decision to join. I was in your shoes 8 years ago. I was 19 years old with no college, or money, and wanted to be a navy pilot.
My recommendation to you is to go in as Aircrew. That is the best way to ensure that you will be flying.
As far as becoming an officer, I also have another recommendation. The STA-21 program is great, but it does have its downfalls. It is very competetive and could take years to get accepted for. Plus, you will owe the navy once you've attained your degree.
Use you G.I. Bill while you are active duty! Do not waste your enlisted time drinking and partying waiting to get picked up for a commissioning program. Each year, once you have used the alloted Tuition Assistance, start using the G.I. Bill. I did that for 3+ years on active duty and almost completed my degree while active duty. At the end of my 5 year enlistment, I got out and finished the little amount of school I had left and then applied for OCS.
When applying for OCS (if you want sna/snfo), they like prior enlisted, especially if you were aircrew. They know you already have a good idea of what naval aviation is all about, you've already been through SERE School, and they know you can get through all the swimming crap.
Keep in mind that you will not be allowed to start taking college courses untill all of your navy schools are complete (Aircrew School, A School, FRS). They want you to concentrate on that.
Statement 1 may be partially true...in my NSI class, about 20% were close to getting a degree. It's not the end all factor for disqualifying applicants, but of course it looks good on your application.
Statements 2 and 3 are complete crap.
Statement 4 is very true...the program is competitive and is work in addition to your everyday schedule. The process is tedious and takes dedication and initiative to complete.
Statements 2 and 3 are complete crap.
Statement 4 is very true...the program is competitive and is work in addition to your everyday schedule. The process is tedious and takes dedication and initiative to complete.
While I greatly respect your opinion,
I have to argue my stance that I do not believe my statements were "Crap"
For statement 2: I'll meet you halfway on this.. this might be the case for any program.. but you cannot disagree that being at a duty station such as staff duty that gets you extra face time with higher brass as well as potentially flag officers does not give you a bit of an edge... or personally knowing some of these through connections. Let's be real here. The Navy is based on hookups.. Please read this.. YES I understand that 99% of applicants selections are there because they earned it on their own personal merit, but there are some with a slight advantage, but thats real life.
For Statement 3: 2003 Is when I applied. I will try to do some homework and dig up some of the navy presentations on STA-21 from that FY. I specifically tried to mitigate my point there because I knew it did sound a bit outlandish. And quite honestly I almost considered not posting it. But I did for the purpose of seeing if anyone else was told this. I cannot explain to you how pissed/disappointed/appalled it was to be personally told by an NC1, and NCCS on separate occasions that I have an uphill battle because I am white and a male??? So yeah needless to say, I was a bit salty balls about that. Ultimately I thought it was bullshit but as a E-4 there is only so much you can say about that.
But with that said.. You can not exactly all it crap when it is presented to you in an official presentation as well as told to me personally by two CCC's. I didn't exactly dream this stuff up.
I was not trying to sway the OP away from enlisting and applying for this program by any means..if that is what he ultimately wants to do then more power.. But given his current situation it sounds more feasible for him to just goto college and try to get picked up for a commission through another means.
I have to argue my stance that I do not believe my statements were "Crap"
For statement 2: I'll meet you halfway on this.. this might be the case for any program.. but you cannot disagree that being at a duty station such as staff duty that gets you extra face time with higher brass as well as potentially flag officers does not give you a bit of an edge... or personally knowing some of these through connections. Let's be real here. The Navy is based on hookups.. Please read this.. YES I understand that 99% of applicants selections are there because they earned it on their own personal merit, but there are some with a slight advantage, but thats real life.
For Statement 3: 2003 Is when I applied. I will try to do some homework and dig up some of the navy presentations on STA-21 from that FY. I specifically tried to mitigate my point there because I knew it did sound a bit outlandish. And quite honestly I almost considered not posting it. But I did for the purpose of seeing if anyone else was told this. I cannot explain to you how pissed/disappointed/appalled it was to be personally told by an NC1, and NCCS on separate occasions that I have an uphill battle because I am white and a male??? So yeah needless to say, I was a bit salty balls about that. Ultimately I thought it was bullshit but as a E-4 there is only so much you can say about that.
But with that said.. You can not exactly all it crap when it is presented to you in an official presentation as well as told to me personally by two CCC's. I didn't exactly dream this stuff up.
I was not trying to sway the OP away from enlisting and applying for this program by any means..if that is what he ultimately wants to do then more power.. But given his current situation it sounds more feasible for him to just goto college and try to get picked up for a commission through another means.
"An NC1 and an NCCS" may know stats and programs...they don't know how the selections are done. You're talking about rumors and perceptions of quotas. Now if BuPers or CNATRA says that, I'll believe it. Otherwise, it's just mess-deck bullshit.
Likewise the idea that somehow the Navy runs on hookups and who you know. Not true. If you're going to fall back on saying that someone, somewhere at some time was helped along because he knew someone, that's a specious (college word for "bullshit") argument, because you're daring everyone else to prove a negative. If you're saying that someone did well in a staff job and thus improved his career...isn't that supposed to be how it works? Do well, get promoted? But I can tell you that my experience has been more of the opposite. It seems to me sometimes that the Navy is so determined to avoid appearances of favoritism and helping-along-favorites, that job performance is the last thing they consider in screening and promotions. It becomes about mindless block-checking, and I've seen more than one guy get moved up the ladder because no one had the balls to write him a fitrep that said, "worthless as a football bat, Do Not Promote." And I know the skippers who wrote their fitreps, and I know that they didn't hook them up.
Likewise the idea that somehow the Navy runs on hookups and who you know. Not true. If you're going to fall back on saying that someone, somewhere at some time was helped along because he knew someone, that's a specious (college word for "bullshit") argument, because you're daring everyone else to prove a negative. If you're saying that someone did well in a staff job and thus improved his career...isn't that supposed to be how it works? Do well, get promoted? But I can tell you that my experience has been more of the opposite. It seems to me sometimes that the Navy is so determined to avoid appearances of favoritism and helping-along-favorites, that job performance is the last thing they consider in screening and promotions. It becomes about mindless block-checking, and I've seen more than one guy get moved up the ladder because no one had the balls to write him a fitrep that said, "worthless as a football bat, Do Not Promote." And I know the skippers who wrote their fitreps, and I know that they didn't hook them up.
christaphurrr
Member
Okay, so I have replied to this thread asking questions before, but now I have some pretty legit answers that I will share.
I stated in previous posts on this thread that I signed on as an aircrewman to leave in August with the hopes of becoming a Naval Aviator after completing NROTC. Well, the scholarship hasn't come. So, I performed some research of my own and this is what I found through this forum and other sources.
My recruiter (enlisted) tried to push his program on me. Go through DEP, work hard, apply for STA-21 in A-school and prove yourself.
Well.. A-school for an aircrewman takes a while..
A-School (Job School) Information
I contacted a few officer recruiters, and I was told that it would be best to go to college first and ensure your degree. You can become involved in an NROTC unit at a college without a scholarship, and if you work hard you can earn a 2 or a 3 year scholarship for that school.
If you can't do NROTC, you can try for the BDCP--Bachelor Degree Completion Program. You apply for this your sophmore year of college and starting your junior year if accepted, the Navy will pay your way through college (or so I understand) and also pay you a monthly salary. Afterwards, you go to OCS, a 13 week program designed to turn civilians into officers.
If you decide against that, you can finish your degree and try to get into OCS.
The biggest factors with each of these programs is GPA. Keep it high, and work hard. Have a lot of extracurriculars (leadership if possible. ie student government, etc.)
I personally got out of DEP (pretty simple process), and I am going to college and will become involved with the NROTC units without a scholarship and work my butt off to get one. I have already contacted the NROTC unit commanders at the 2 final schools I am having trouble choosing between and I found that it's not difficult to become involved with. You just fill out some paperwork and you're in as long as you don't eff it up.
I stated in previous posts on this thread that I signed on as an aircrewman to leave in August with the hopes of becoming a Naval Aviator after completing NROTC. Well, the scholarship hasn't come. So, I performed some research of my own and this is what I found through this forum and other sources.
My recruiter (enlisted) tried to push his program on me. Go through DEP, work hard, apply for STA-21 in A-school and prove yourself.
Well.. A-school for an aircrewman takes a while..
A-School (Job School) Information
- Aircrewman Candadate School, Pensacola, FL -- 5 weeks
- Rescue Swimmer School (for those who volunteer) -- Pensacola, FL -- 25 class days
- A-School (job training) -- 7-23 weeks, depending on rating assigned
- Aircraft training squadrons, various locations, 6-32 weeks (depending on type aircraft assigned)
I contacted a few officer recruiters, and I was told that it would be best to go to college first and ensure your degree. You can become involved in an NROTC unit at a college without a scholarship, and if you work hard you can earn a 2 or a 3 year scholarship for that school.
If you can't do NROTC, you can try for the BDCP--Bachelor Degree Completion Program. You apply for this your sophmore year of college and starting your junior year if accepted, the Navy will pay your way through college (or so I understand) and also pay you a monthly salary. Afterwards, you go to OCS, a 13 week program designed to turn civilians into officers.
If you decide against that, you can finish your degree and try to get into OCS.
The biggest factors with each of these programs is GPA. Keep it high, and work hard. Have a lot of extracurriculars (leadership if possible. ie student government, etc.)
I personally got out of DEP (pretty simple process), and I am going to college and will become involved with the NROTC units without a scholarship and work my butt off to get one. I have already contacted the NROTC unit commanders at the 2 final schools I am having trouble choosing between and I found that it's not difficult to become involved with. You just fill out some paperwork and you're in as long as you don't eff it up.