American Trafalgar: Midway 70th Anniversary

[bunk22]

To be correct - the only survivor from VT-8 off Hornet. Remember that VT-8 also flew five Avengers from Midway too. They didn't fare well and only one of five returned to Midway. The gunner of the one that returned, Radioman 2c, Harry Ferrier (later CDR ret) was speaker at the NUW O'club back in the early nineties.

The NSA History Dept has a good summary of some of the Cryptologic work that went on too. http://www.nsa.gov/about/cryptologic_heritage/center_crypt_history/publications/battle_midway.shtml

Actually, 6 VT-8 TBF's were launched from Midway with only one making it back. Here is a pick of the sole VT-8 TBF survivor back at Midway, with a dead rear gunner:

Here is the last photo ever taken of VT-8 off the Hornet, as they joined up to go attack the Japanese fleet:

And a list of the torpedo plane losses on 4 June...can you imagine losing 44 aircraft and 100 men before noon in today's world?

 

[jmcquate]

Actually, 6 VT-8 TBF's were launched from Midway with only one making it back. Here is a pick of the sole VT-8 TBF survivor back at Midway, with a dead rear gunner:

Here is the last photo ever taken of VT-8 off the Hornet, as they joined up to go attack the Japanese fleet:

And a list of the torpedo plane losses on 4 June...can you imagine losing 44 aircraft and 100 men before noon in today's world?

I knew there were B-17s out of Midway testing Gen. Mitchells therories, did not know about B-26s

 

[Pags]

I knew there were B-17s out of Midway testing Gen. Mitchells therories, did not know about B-26s

SJS has another article on this:
http://steeljawscribe.com/2011/06/0...ial-midway-maruaders-a-shore-based-strike-pov

The B-26s were being used as torpedo bombers.

 

[Renegade One]

Probably the guiltiest bastards from that battle/engagement were the American torpedo manufacturers. What a waste.
Never really knew before that Torpedo THREE also suffered 100% attrition. Why is that, I wonder?

 

[SteveG75]

Oscar Winner: Best Documentary 1942

"The Battle of Midway" directed by John Ford (who filmed it on the island during the Japanese attack). At 5:10, you get to watch the B-17's takeoff and later on there is some great SBD footage.

 

[707guy]

Had the opportunity to hear ENS Gay speak in the base theater at Pax River in the early 90's. Amazing to hear the story from the man himself.

 

[helolumpy]

Am I the only one who sees a picture of Henry Fonda when I think of Chester Nimitz?
Also, who knew Hal Holbrook was a cryppie???

 

[blackbart22]

One of my T-28 instructors asked me what I wanted to fly in advanced. I said jets or ADs. He said don't fly ADs. They can hang a torpedo on it. Don't ever, ever fly anything that they can hang a torpedo on. That was in '59 and he was an old ( I thought at the time) guy.

 

[Renegade One]

The term "American Trafalgar" does a bit of disservice to the heroism, sacrifices and EFFECTS of the battle of 4-6 June, 1942.
Midway: Widely acknowledged as a "turning point" in the War in the Pacific. Japan would be in retreat to eventual defeat ever after. Midway was pivotal....
Trafalgar: Not so much. Despite the British victory over the Franco-Spanish navies, Trafalgar had negligible impact on the remainder of the War of the Third Coalition. Less than two months later, Napoleon decisively defeated the Third Coalition at the Battle of Austerlitz, knocking Austria out of the war and forcing the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire. Though Trafalgar meant France could no longer challenge Britain at sea, Napoleon proceeded to establish the Continental System in an attempt to deny Britain trade with the continent. The Napoleonic Wars would continue for another ten years after Trafalgar.

 

[Pags]

Probably the guiltiest bastards from that battle/engagement were the American torpedo manufacturers. What a waste.
Never really knew before that Torpedo THREE also suffered 100% attrition. Why is that, I wonder?

American torpedo performance in the first two years of the war for aircraft, subs, and ships was atrocious. The history of that debacle is disgraceful.

 

[scoober78]

The term "American Trafalgar" does a bit of disservice to the heroism, sacrifices and EFFECTS of the battle of 4-6 June, 1942.
Midway: Widely acknowledged as a "turning point" in the War in the Pacific. Japan would be in retreat to eventual defeat ever after. Midway was pivotal....
Trafalgar: Not so much. Despite the British victory over the Franco-Spanish navies, Trafalgar had negligible impact on the remainder of the War of the Third Coalition. Less than two months later, Napoleon decisively defeated the Third Coalition at the Battle of Austerlitz, knocking Austria out of the war and forcing the dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire. Though Trafalgar meant France could no longer challenge Britain at sea, Napoleon proceeded to establish the Continental System in an attempt to deny Britain trade with the continent. The Napoleonic Wars would continue for another ten years after Trafalgar.

Great points. In my mind, the only plausible counterargument was that Trafalgar, like Midway, ensured that the victor no longer faced the threat of invasion or strike from the navies of the enemy. Each was, in a sense, the penultimate battle for supremacy over the only battlespace that would allow a strike against the homeland of either Britain or the United States; the ocean. Prior to Midway, nothing precluded Japan from threatening Hawaii again or even CONUS.

 

[Pags]

Great points. In my mind, the only plausible counterargument was that Trafalgar, like Midway, ensured that the victor no longer faced the threat of invasion or strike from the navies of the enemy. Each was, in a sense, the penultimate battle for supremacy over the only battlespace that would allow a strike against the homeland of either Britain or the United States; the ocean. Prior to Midway, nothing precluded Japan from threatening Hawaii again or even CONUS.

In all fairness, I used the term "Trafalgar" not imply a level of strategic similarity, but just to say that Midway was a great US Naval Victory that needs to be celebrated by all hands in a fashion similar to Trafalgar in the RN.

 

[Renegade One]

Great points. In my mind, the only plausible counterargument was that Trafalgar, like Midway, ensured that the victor no longer faced the threat of invasion or strike from the navies of the enemy. Each was, in a sense, the penultimate battle for supremacy over the only battlespace that would allow a strike against the homeland of either Britain or the United States; the ocean. Prior to Midway, nothing precluded Japan from threatening Hawaii again or even CONUS.

I'll give you all of that. Nice reply! ("The Force is strong in this one!")

 

[Renegade One]

In all fairness, I used the term "Trafalgar" not imply a level of strategic similarity, but just to say that Midway was a great US Naval Victory that needs to be celebrated by all hands in a fashion similar to Trafalgar in the RN.

Yep...if Trafalgar Day is the RN "Hoo-Hah" Day...and I gather it is...then I agree. Both need to be celebrated...for all the right reasons.

 

[Flash]

American torpedo performance in the first two years of the war for aircraft, subs, and ships was atrocious. The history of that debacle is disgraceful.

You can thank the Navy's Bureau of Ordnance for that, they refused to listen to the submariners who claimed that the torps were screwed up for a long time and basically called them liars and incompetents. Here is a good summary of the convoluted saga of trying to fix American torpedoes in WWII.