Airspeed Restriction Below "B"

[MIDNJAC]

You must not like gas. Do you take off with the dumps on also?

Well I don't routinely take off out of civilian fields where this would come into play, so generally speaking, yes I'm climbing at a normal Hornet speed of 300-350-ish. But if I'm low altitude trucking my way through socal's airspace, and not within the confines of normal pointy nosed operating areas, then I've got no problem standing up the throttles, giving myself a few knots of thinking time, and working my way up. Around here you get stepped up to cruise like its cool, coming out of LGB, or other busy places, so you'd be burning a bunch more gas anyway. I'm gonna go ahead and say that you probably burn a lot more gas than normal by being low, than you do by standing up the throttles and climbing more slowly. Yeah it isn't perfect best rate of climb at 350 kts and mil like the sim guys teach, but around here, I can afford to use a couple hundred extra pounds of gas for the piece of mind that I'm not pissing off ATC and that I'm giving myself time to do my job if they randomly clear me direct to some GPS waypoint that doesn't exist in the load (has happened to me).

 

[gotta_fly]

A certain run-in with a KC-10 comes to mind, yes? That was mostly their (Giant Killer's) fuck up, right?

Yes. It was entirely their fault, and sadly that sort of thing is not uncommon, albeit to a lesser degree.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

 

[wlawr005]

Well I don't routinely take off out of civilian fields where this would come into play, so generally speaking, yes I'm climbing at a normal Hornet speed of 300-350-ish. But if I'm low altitude trucking my way through socal's airspace, and not within the confines of normal pointy nosed operating areas, then I've got no problem standing up the throttles, giving myself a few knots of thinking time, and working my way up. Around here you get stepped up to cruise like its cool, coming out of LGB, or other busy places, so you'd be burning a bunch more gas anyway. I'm gonna go ahead and say that you probably burn a lot more gas than normal by being low, than you do by standing up the throttles and climbing more slowly. Yeah it isn't perfect best rate of climb at 350 kts and mil like the sim guys teach, but around here, I can afford to use a couple hundred extra pounds of gas for the piece of mind that I'm not pissing off ATC and that I'm giving myself time to do my job if they randomly clear me direct to some GPS waypoint that doesn't exist in the load (has happened to me).

standing up the throttles?

 

[Swanee]

standing up the throttles?

Something I never heard until coming to Kingsville. It means to throttle back a bit on the power.

 

[jarhead]

Some of you are comical about not wanting to fly 200 knots. You'll fight the jet to <150 kts but you won't slow down to 200 kts to help out sequencing. Different strokes for different folks...but in the Hornet in CONUS, I'm not too concerned about that extra 100-200 lbs of gas I might burn on climbout or on arrival in congested airspace.

...As far as the 250 below 10k feet I would typically depart the runway in a max AB take off. Climbing out in mil power at 250 doesn't give you much forward visibility in a Hornet, Rhino, or Viper. Rather than claim my 350 knots for visibility over the nose from NATOPS, I would just stand up the throttles and climb at a lower VSI going 250 knots. At joint use fields that were less busy I would still do the 350 climb out.

+1

 

[pilot_man]

Some of you are comical about not wanting to fly 200 knots. You'll fight the jet to <150 kts but you won't slow down to 200 kts to help out sequencing. Different strokes for different folks...but in the Hornet in CONUS, I'm not too concerned about that extra 100-200 lbs of gas I might burn on climbout or on arrival in congested airspace.

+1

Fighting in a 1v1, in exclusive use airspace, with no one anywhere close except for the one guy I'm fighting and a 5k' floor is not the same as slowing below 200kts while in busy approach airspace with lots of VFR traffic. It's not just the over the nose issue, but also the maneuverability of the aircraft. I will fly around at high alpha in a BFM fight, I will not fly less than 200kts with approach. If you're comfortable with your flaps at half, while in formation, with ordnance on the aircraft, then that's all good. But it's not like I'm making up the airspeed requirement. It's NATOPS that explicitly spells it out.

 

[RHPF]

Standing the throttles up is just that: The throttle is \ at idle, | mid range, / mil.

 

[squorch2]

"Reducing power" must have been too confusing. Or too few words.

 

[phrogpilot73]

"Reducing power" must have been too confusing. Or too few words.

Or not cool enough...

 

[RHPF]

As much as I get the whole make fun of the pointy nose guys for trying to hard thing... I think it is more descriptive than saying "reduce the power". Since there are lots of throttle positions that are 'reduced' but not midrange. Standing the throttle up applies to a loosely specific power setting (mid range would probably be a less 'cool' way to say the same thing). It is often briefed in certain BFM flights, where you don't want to go any faster, so 'standing the throttles up' more or less let's you hold what you have. Or it's a good place to deviate from if you shouldn't be at idle, or mil.

Either way, flame on.

 

[scoolbubba]

The next time I fly, I'm going to tell my flight engineer to stand up the power levers...see if he punches me in my head.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Fighting in a 1v1, in exclusive use airspace, with no one anywhere close except for the one guy I'm fighting and a 5k' floor is not the same as slowing below 200kts while in busy approach airspace with lots of VFR traffic. It's not just the over the nose issue, but also the maneuverability of the aircraft. I will fly around at high alpha in a BFM fight, I will not fly less than 200kts with approach. If you're comfortable with your flaps at half, while in formation, with ordnance on the aircraft, then that's all good. But it's not like I'm making up the airspeed requirement. It's NATOPS that explicitly spells it out.

Pretty busy afternoon for socal today, with boats, weather, and lots of us out in the 291. Got the 170 speed restriction while being vectored for the PAR, as did all of my friends ahead of me in the conga line.....thanks to a delicious -53 flying the approach as well. Let's just say that if they give me that again, I may very well tell them unable.......pretty damn uncomfortable flying half flaps, gear tone silenced, trying to step down from 16k through the goo. Lots of opportunity to screw something up in that scenario IMHO (esp as -2), and would probably trump my "be accomodating to approach" perspective, in hindsight. I finally just said F-it and dirtied up at like 14 miles on final......I think some Meridian sim IP probably just had a heart attack somewhere because of it

 

[KBayDog]

The next time I fly, I'm going to tell my flight engineer to stand up the power levers...see if he punches me in my head.

I'll tell my copilot to "stand up the collective."

 

[squorch2]

"HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO STAND UP THE COLLECTIVE?!"

 

[pourts]

Well I don't routinely take off out of civilian fields where this would come into play, so generally speaking, yes I'm climbing at a normal Hornet speed of 300-350-ish. But if I'm low altitude trucking my way through socal's airspace, and not within the confines of normal pointy nosed operating areas, then I've got no problem standing up the throttles, giving myself a few knots of thinking time, and working my way up. Around here you get stepped up to cruise like its cool, coming out of LGB, or other busy places, so you'd be burning a bunch more gas anyway. I'm gonna go ahead and say that you probably burn a lot more gas than normal by being low, than you do by standing up the throttles and climbing more slowly. Yeah it isn't perfect best rate of climb at 350 kts and mil like the sim guys teach, but around here, I can afford to use a couple hundred extra pounds of gas for the piece of mind that I'm not pissing off ATC and that I'm giving myself time to do my job if they randomly clear me direct to some GPS waypoint that doesn't exist in the load (has happened to me).

Ok, got it. If you are going yo have to level off for atc, then nevermind. Lemoore is nice since we aren't as congested.

As for "standing up throttles" yes its idiosyncratic, but we understand what it means from day one. And, its not the same as reduce power, since you may have to add power to stand them up.