Air Force OTS --- wow.. hardcore

[HueyCobra8151]

I question the funding required to provide a candidate all the amenities pictured above, when actual combat equipment and combat ready manpower are straining the Marine Corps budget to the point that the V-22 had to be reduced and the EFV placed on hold (among many others).

I am sure other services are feeling the strain as well.

 

[jai5w4]

Officer accession programs are in part about indoctrinating people into the culture of their respective service - whether you are USMC, USN, AF, or Army . It's all the same goals just different cultures.

The AF guys have a much more corporate/standardized culture - and OTS is a little more "collegiate" than Marine Corps OCS -

Not saying it's not ok to give them a serious ribbing - but they are no less a warrior than any Marine or Navy type.

Shack.

 

[TuxFlier]

Alright - hear it from an AF guy:

I'm ROTC and not OTS, but I can guarantee that that gay ass $h!t is not representative of typical AF training.

Secondly, you guys want to talk about how 90% will never see combat, or the collegiate environment - well let's talk about all the combat that the sub drivers are seeing right now. Or all the great Naval battles taking place in the big blue waters. Sure they have some pirates from time to time, but most of the media talks about skippers running aground recently.

Marines are in a class all their own, and I can NEVER disrespect them.

 

[usmarinemike]

Alright - hear it from an AF guy:

I'm ROTC and not OTS, but I can guarantee that that gay ass $h!t is not representative of typical AF training.

Secondly, you guys want to talk about how 90% will never see combat, or the collegiate environment - well let's talk about all the combat that the sub drivers are seeing right now. Or all the great Naval battles taking place in the big blue waters. Sure they have some pirates from time to time, but most of the media talks about skippers running aground recently.

Marines are in a class all their own, and I can NEVER disrespect them.

We have our doozies. Our 10%. That's about all I have to say about that.

And after all the briefs I've had to sit through here so that the mids can figure out what they like, I'm never going to disrespect the sub guys (except for the obscene amount of money they get paid).

 

[jarhead]

My 2¢ (not directed at anybody in particular) … I didn’t watch the video assuming it would be a waste of time. It’s fun to poke fun at other services and their training. But like Skid said, the AF doesn’t recruit “meatheads”; they need “geeks” (not literally – the AF has meatheads too, try talking to one of those fellas that come after you for crossing the “red line”). It’s all about the services mission. I can recall many times back when I was enlisted, departing the LPD in MED for 2-3 week exercises in the field that I wished I had joined the Navy and was getting to stay on ship (and getting libo). Back on ship, during times like GQ, I was happy to be a Marine. As a pilot, if I can’t go into a civilian field, I try to hit an AF field … why? Compare the facilities at D-M to Yuma, Hickam to K-Bay, Kadena to Iwakuni. Why would somebody interested in a technology field be interested at getting thrashed at Marine Corps boot camp or OCS when they could join the AF, which is, as was previously stated, run similar to a corporation?

As for the “Old days” in the Corps, bah. People’s memories fad with time and what they remember is usually embellished. I went through Parris Island in ’91, not much has changed today except they are training smarter, especially physically. Except for the Crucible, even the training schedule is similar. Listening to my Pops describe P.I. from his time there in ’71, not much has changed except the recruits today are smarter and the majority have a high school diploma. Those who went through before the Ribbon Creek incident are truly the “Old School” Marines - no Officer supervision, LCPL D.I.’s who had just graduated boot camp themselves, and discipline being taught via physical contact.

Chuck … I’d say calling that the AF guy sitting in chair in Nevada driving a UAV, or sitting in a missile silo in Wyoming, or the vast majority of other AF jobs, a “Warrior” is stretching it.

off my soapbox … back to bashing the AF, and throw in some squid & Army “strong” bashing for good measure.

S/F

 

[xmid]

I question the funding required to provide a candidate all the amenities pictured above, when actual combat equipment and combat ready manpower are straining the Marine Corps budget to the point that the V-22 had to be reduced and the EFV placed on hold (among many others).

I am sure other services are feeling the strain as well.

Doesn't the Marine Corps pride themselves on giving part of their budget back every year?...

 

[scoober78]

Secondly, you guys want to talk about how 90% will never see combat, or the collegiate environment - well let's talk about all the combat that the sub drivers are seeing right now. Or all the great Naval battles taking place in the big blue waters. Sure they have some pirates from time to time, but most of the media talks about skippers running aground recently.

Marines are in a class all their own, and I can NEVER disrespect them.

And yet...The bottom line for this thread...is don't talk out your ass about things which you haven't done and don't understand. You have no idea what duty on a submarine is like. I wouldn't presume to talk about Air Force missions or training seriously because I haven't been there. Extend others the same courtesy.

I would point out also, that there is much of this going the other way...how many videos have we laughed at with Navy crews jackassing around...let's all dial it back a notch eh?

 

[whitesoxnation]

I wasn't trying to insult anyone. I was just really suprised at how... well... unhardcore it is.

 

[Swanee]

Chuck … I’d say calling that the AF guy sitting in chair in Nevada driving a UAV, or sitting in a missile silo in Wyoming, or the vast majority of other AF jobs, a “Warrior” is stretching it.

S/F

I'm going to agree here. But, you do see the real warfighters in the AF get that training. The PJs and the Combat Air Controllers and others go train with "real" infantry units where they will spend most of their time in the field. Hell, I know one CAC that spent more time with a Marine unit than an AF one.

Other people have told me that parts of UPT have a warfighter training mentality. I've said this before, but AMS for the Air Guard (where all those Guard babies come from) is only 6 weeks long. But that's all it needs to be. For the most part you are training a part time officer. Get them in and teach them the ways of the AF and then get them to pilot training and back to their unit where they will probably spend the rest of their career.

 

[plc67]

I do know that the Marine Corps has had its training lapses . In WWII there were junior DIs who had just graduated from recruit training, kind of a MCRD version of plowbacks, and similarly their lack of experience showed. It's believed that's where the physical brutality that charactarized training for quite awhile got started; ill trained DIs using physical contact to get their point across. Recruit training was down to six weeks and four weeks was experimented with, if I recall correctly, but it was a disaster.
During Korea there were Marine reserve poolees sent to infantry combat with no boot camp. Their units were activated and off they went. My father had several of them in his unit at Inchon, Seoul and the Chosin and they were a disaster, no surprise there. Leaders with combat experience pulled the division through.
When I went to flight school TBS was waived for aviators and I was at a total loss when I was FACed with 5th Marines. Back then PLC/OCC was presented as a screening process and TBS was where you got training so there was a major training gap.
As far as training differences I would be surprised if they hand out punches, kicks and rifle butts as liberally as they used to. While those methods didn't add quality to training it did tend to keep you focused. Again, it seemed the non DI school trained Staff seemed to be the worst offenders.
I don't believe the Corps had L/Cpls during the Ribbon Creek incident.
Marine Corps training has helped me immensely with giving me a never give up mentality, especially in some situations where the issue was in doubt. That's something I know I got from the Corps and would hope I would have received had I gone in another branch.
How other branches view the others training has given me great amusement over the years. The misconconceptions are mind boggling. Recently I had a former USAF colonel state that it was a shame that Navy/Marine Corps aviators didn't have an instrument rating. He was shocked when I told him that hadn't been true since shortly after WWII.
All that being said I do believe that over all the Air Force is a bunch of pussies.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Secondly, you guys want to talk about how 90% will never see combat, or the collegiate environment - well let's talk about all the combat that the sub drivers are seeing right now. Or all the great Naval battles taking place in the big blue waters. Sure they have some pirates from time to time, but most of the media talks about skippers running aground recently.

But the BIG difference is that the sub & ship drivers ARE combat units that WILL see combat if there is a major war. Plus the chances of a forward deployed ship getting into some littoral action is a lot more than that of a C-5 crew hauling cargo.

There is a lot more Navy in offensive war fighter roles than there is Air Force. I'm not saying the Air Force role is unimportant, but it is largely support. Support for either the few Air Force combat units or to the other services.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

Blah...

Department of Homeland Security has the biggest dick of all I heard.

This thread sucks.

 

[wink]

Secondly, you guys want to talk about how 90% will never see combat, or the collegiate environment - well let's talk about all the combat that the sub drivers are seeing right now. Or all the great Naval battles taking place in the big blue waters. Sure they have some pirates from time to time, but most of the media talks about skippers running aground recently.

Really, I have seen lots of combat training on ships and subs. Navy ships sail in harms way whether they are offensive or not. And their combat training becomes necessary even when not expected. (USS Cole) When called, the entire crew takes the fight to the enemy. When the ship is damaged, the entire crew fights to save the ship. I don't recall ever seeing a USAF computer tech or personnel officer, or aircraft mechanic conduct similar training or have the responsibility for ensuring their base wasn't over run or rendered completely ineffective.

That said, and I truly do not mean this as a cop out, I have never had any respect for the AF as an institution, but have no reason to disrespect the individuals that choose to serve in the AF.

 

[LoneSailor]

Seeing that more than %50 of our nation's nuclear arsenal are onboard today's most advanced submarines, let's hope we never see submarines in combat with another nation with an established military power.

And for your information, surface ships have been providing vital combat support for OEF/OIF since the begining.

 

[Strider]

Going back to the gayness of the video...yes the air force is home to many pussies. Notice how the core values differ in that the AF has "integrity" instead of "honor" as their first choice. self explanatory. I did AFROTC for a year and can say the majority of cadets choose the air force because they don't want to see combat or be in a combat environment. Flying planes and wearing flight suits seem to be their main interests. As odd as it may seem, there are a few badasses who wear blues. The colonel of my detachment was in special forces for 20+ years and he was more hardcore than any marine. What he was doing in the air force I do not know.