Bush kept George Tenet as DCI. Gates has been seen as relatively 'apolitical' in his running of the Defense Department, and it is hard to argue with success.....'The Surge'.
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AF Honchos Fired
- Thread starter Swanee
- Start date
Bush kept George Tenet as DCI. Gates has been seen as relatively 'apolitical' in his running of the Defense Department, and it is hard to argue with success.....'The Surge'.
Hey, what's that over there in the corner? What is that thing? Why, it's the Counter-Drug War!! ...and look over here, it's anti-piracy operations in HOA!! Oh, and it's our old friends Strategic Deterrence, Feedom of the Seas, and Humanitarian Assistance - so good to see you guys!!!
If Carrier taught us anything, its that there's a much bigger picture out there than that which is maintained by your average AOAN or nugget TACAIR dude(tte).
Navy petitioning Congress to allow it to maintain 1 less carrier (temporarily?). Seawolf production cut short and replaced with the (marginally) more affordable Virginia class. No new boomer on the drawing board. About to be retired boomers converted to conventional strike/SOF insertion platforms. At the rate that the Zumwalt class is coming into service, the Burke class is likely to be around for a while.
So no, I don't see the analogy.
If the Navy were run like the AF, they'd be petitioning for a 1000 ship fleet and a new boomer by 2018.
The Navy catches shit for the A-12, but at least they had the good sense to sink it. Similarly for the Army's Commanche. Is there a major Air Force procurement program they've given up recently?
I'll chock that comment up to not knowing the capabilities of any of those three aircraft.
The statement was made that, unless a combat system is actively directly engaged in the GWOT, then it is not on "active service".
How is it difficult to see the analogy to the types of USN ships that fit into that same category? I don't see the Ohio class over there busting up AQ training camps.
Yeah, well it was tongue-in-cheek to the guy who made that comment. Just saying....
Apparently, sometimes it is hard to turn down when the President asks you directly. He turned down the DNI job only to take SECDEF, so you never know. I would not be sorry to see him stay.
That was kind of what I was hinting at... guess that wasn't clear.
We aren't gutting the Navy to fund the GWOT, was what I was getting at. BUT, deterrence matters. Here's my (potentially WRONG) reasoning:
Since we are no longer in the MAD / first-strike business or worried about Fulda Gap, the cuts you point out all make a lot of sense. To focus greatly on either new boomers or new scout helo would be similar to training our infantry in trench warfare, "just in case." The money is clearly better spent elsewhere.
Even with '70s era surface combatants, we OWN the BLUE-WATER around the world. In the air, however, our technological edge is continually challenged. The infastructure required to lay down high-tech keels is MUCH greater than that requried to buy / steal critical technologies and update 4th gen aiframes.
It makes sense to me to develop and field the F-22 in the middle of the GWOT, if not necessarily in the numbers the Air Force would like.
And I don't see the sissies with their missile wings sitting in their silos doing that either. Hell, at least four of the Ohio class CAN bust up AQ training camps without starting a nuclear war.
Well, I'm not the one making the claim that a weapon system has to be actively engaged in OEF/OIF to be considered on "active service".
That's about the biggest 90-degree non-sequitur turn to an argument that I've seen on this forum.
The vast majority of the time on this forum people are able to discuss USAF issues without it turning into a legitimate monkeysh*t throwing fight.
I think that in general the people who are actually engaged in the business of flying and fighting don't have any actual problems with brother services. The majority of the ignorant words like that come from people who haven't spent a day on active duty even working around people from other services. I know that I had some pretty ignorant beliefs about how other services operated based on the biases we all get where we are raised as officers and warriors. Once I got to operate with the Navy, Army, and Marines on an operational basis I shed a lot of those biases. I realized that there were ways that the USAF did it wrong, and some ways that other services did it better. No shame in that so far as I'm concerned. I'd like to think there are some Navy guys that think similarly after working with USAF types.
Of course there will be good natured ribbing...it's tradition...but I'd like to think that beyond that, guys with the gold-colored wings would respect the contributions made by the guys with the silver-colored wings and vice versa. Hell, it's no different than the 'hate' that exists between Tomcat and Hornet guys who rag each other incessantly -- right up to the point that the AF guy walks into the bar, and then they both unite to make fun of the blue-suit guy. An hour later, they're probably all blitzed and shooting each others' watches like they were always close buds.
Both of our services have highly skilled people that do an impressive job with the mission they're charged to do. Both of our services have people and organizations that make ridiculously embarassing decisions or mistakes and open us up to ridicule from the other side.
In this case, with the very public firings of the AF's senior leadership, there is a legit discussion to be had about why it happened and what the road ahead is.
Hacker,
I was an E-4 when the Chief of Naval Operations committed suicide. The Navy is no stranger to dirty laundry in the open. I was actually depressed that day and Im no poster boy for Go Navy. But even I felt the sting. Many here feel your pain in spite of the vindication of opinions.
I do not relish your Sec or COS's public flogging. And I'm sure no one here really does.
As a recipient of USAF CAS I have nothing but thanks and respect for USAF zoomies.
The f-22 costs a zillion dollars. So does the Seawolf. I could give a sh$t either way.
I just had lunch with an Infantry BN CO who was alloted 300rds per man for pre-deployment training. These kids will be in Iraq in six weeks!.
I must have faith that the Big Bosses know more than me. That they made smart decisions even if they don't make sense to me. The core leadership of the Air Force has just been sacked. I feel for the E-4 who is deciding whether to give it another tour or bounce. His faith was just tested.
Stay Low...
I was an E-4 when the Chief of Naval Operations committed suicide. The Navy is no stranger to dirty laundry in the open. I was actually depressed that day and Im no poster boy for Go Navy. But even I felt the sting. Many here feel your pain in spite of the vindication of opinions.
I do not relish your Sec or COS's public flogging. And I'm sure no one here really does.
As a recipient of USAF CAS I have nothing but thanks and respect for USAF zoomies.
The f-22 costs a zillion dollars. So does the Seawolf. I could give a sh$t either way.
I just had lunch with an Infantry BN CO who was alloted 300rds per man for pre-deployment training. These kids will be in Iraq in six weeks!.
I must have faith that the Big Bosses know more than me. That they made smart decisions even if they don't make sense to me. The core leadership of the Air Force has just been sacked. I feel for the E-4 who is deciding whether to give it another tour or bounce. His faith was just tested.
Stay Low...
I agree with everything except for one thing....fixed it for you.
