Jets v Helos

[Ave8tor]

The ultimate dillemma. I have just began primary, but already this question has been bouncing around in my head. Coming from MCAS Miramar, where the F-18 rules the sky, I have always wanted to fly jets. I worked on helos and jets alike, and have always had an attraction toward the Hornet. But after talking to many pilots regarding the separate platforms, I'm just not so sure any more. I don't know if these next assumptions are true, but that's what this post is for.

Jets
Pros: Slick looking, and incredibly fast. You rack up a good amount of tactical jet time, especially if I want to be a NASA Shuttle pilot. Not technically multi-engine time, but fixed wing time, good for transitioning to the airlines or air parcel (maybe?). Possible transition to the JSF.
Cons: Fly in circles, burning holes in the sky waiting for that call to drop ordinance (probably my main downer). Longest training pipeline (not much of a concern to me). Single seat option (more boring?)

Skids
Pros: Attack helicopters kick ass. Awesome mission (my favorite of all the choices). Good location of West Coast bases (I am from the O.C. after all). Crew flight, especially with air crew. Providing that close support for all those guys on the ground. Ability to fly different platforms.
Cons: Not a wide selection of flying opportunities after I get out, of course I could go be an instructor during primary (although at this point in time, I suck at teaching anything). High operational tempo and deployment cycle. It's not an F-18.

I have no interest in flying 53's, 46's, Hercs or Ospreys. A wise man once told me to pick the mission, not the airframe. I would love to fly the Cobra, but I wouldn't want to look back on passing up the chance to fly jets. I'd love to hear stories of missions and what squadron life is like in each of these communities. Thanks for any input.

 

[phrogdriver]

One, you've just poked a beehive,"jets v. helos," that's been poked a few times already--do a couple of searches as well.

To look at your pro/cons--
I'm assuming you're on board with getting Hueys as well, because "aircrew" in a Cobra is just another pilot. You probably won't fly much of "different platforms," as there's not much interchange between the UH and AH, even though they're in the same squadrons. You're way off base about flying opportunities when you get out. There are plenty of flying opportunities for helo guys when they get out, just not with airlines. Petroleum, EMS, corporate, agriculture, electronic news gathering, etc,etc... As far as varied flying in the service, helo guys are the ones filling most of your station pilot jobs C-12,C-35, etc, plus most of your primary IPs as well.

Do you really want to be a shuttle pilot? I wouldn't make that my go-no-go criteria, especially since the shuttle's being retired in 2010. Your more likely ticket into space is as a mission specialist, and those guys come from everywhere. For example, I know (ok...met one, KNOW OF another) 2 CH-46 pilots who've done that.

Go for what you want, I'm not going to say not to. If you have a hard on for jets, then go for it. On the other hand, you seem to like the shooting side of the helo community. If you're flexible enough to want AH or UH, you'll have a decent shot of getting one of those. Don't worry about "passing up" the chance to do anything. I don't see a multitude of Cobras (or V-22s, or CH-53s....) in the civilian world, either.

 

[Flying Low]

What flight are you on?

 

[scoober78]

What flight are you on?

LOL...no shit.

Look...first, you have no idea whether jets will be an option for you yet. Second. Do some flying, talk to some people and things will begin to clear up. The hard truth here is that you have no idea what kind of FLYING will appeal to you. You may find out that you don't ever want to wear an oxygen mask again...trust me...it happens. Give it a while, talk to IP's.

The bottom line though, at least for me is something that has been repeated many times here...Pick what you want. (Love what you get...the are not always the same) Nobody can tell you that except you...and you can't really do that yet.

 

[Herc_Dude]

That funny - when I started primary, jets and skids were all I wanted as well. Now Im a prop guy and couldn't imagine doing anything else.

Don't limit yourself dude. Its not really up to you anyway.

 

[HeloBubba]

That funny - when I started primary, jets and skids were all I wanted as well. Now Im a prop guy and couldn't imagine doing anything else.

Same here. When I was in "A" School, all I wanted was S-3's (Jets for AW's). I got "stuck" with helos and I feel like that it was my good fortune that it turned out that way. Wouldn't change it if I could.

 

[BaconUSMC]

Without intending to offend any prop or helo guys, I want to point out that a lot of the information you are getting about the various platforms is coming from predominantly helo guys, and may be biased. This is not uncommon as most of the fellas in primary squadrons are helo guys.

As for your pros and cons, the one item that struck me as most incorrect was the listing of single-seat as a CON for jets. For one, you will always go somewhere with a wingman or lead at a minimum (the exception to this is my platform, the EA6B). In addition, as you gain confidence in your flying abilities, I can almost assure you that you will prefer being in your own aircraft alone.

As for mission, don't interpret the fact that most recent jet employment has been from high altitude dropping LGBs as assuming that is all you will ever do...nothing could be farther from the truth. You will remain proficient in air combat, high and low level nav, CAS and DAS, etc. If it's firepower you are after, tacair provides the fastest response with the biggest bang.

As for follow on issues, you were incorrect in stating that mutiengine jet time does not count as true multi-engine. Yes, there is a center-line restriction, but that is overcome with a 1 minute manuever with an FAA checker on your type rating or ATP. Helo time, even the mighty 53E w/ all three engines, is unfortunately not considered by most airlines for minimums.

As for squadron life, you will find most guys will agree that wherever you go, you will find some incredible individuals and some shitheads. Regardless, you will be challenged and work extremely hard. I suggest keeping an open mind about the platforms, seeing where your grades fall out, and keep soliciting inputs from people from various backgrounds. Good luck, Bacon

 

[Huggy Bear]

One thing to consider is that you get a pretty one sided view in primary. Maybe times have changed, but when I went through there was not a single jet-background instructor in my squadron, or the base for that matter. I heard a lot of bad gouge and opinions about the jet community that turned out not to be true.

 

[Purdue]

Do some flying, talk to some people and things will begin to clear up. The hard truth here is that you have no idea what kind of FLYING will appeal to you. You may find out that you don't ever want to wear an oxygen mask again...trust me...it happens. Give it a while, talk to IP's.

+1

Dude, I got into primary thinking "F-18's look awesome..." but when I founf out my body hates G's and I'm more of a laid back guy... Helo's was a perfect fit and my top choice come selection time. Believe me, helicopters are a blast... but so is EVERY airframe.

I say choose your mission above your airframe as well... but wait until you know what airframe's you prefer... it's really a mix of the two.

 

[Raptor2216]

Having selected just recently, I will go ahead and give you my 2 cents. I came into primary with the limited experience of IFS. I knew I had enough brains to be able to understand whatever they would teach me in ground school but just like the majority of primary studs, I didn't know if my brain would be able to put everything together in the air at 170kts. With that said, I came into the corps wanting to fly jets. Primary simply helped me realize whether my brain was quick enough to do it or not.

When I began flying, I simply wanted to make it though primary. I would have been fine flying C-130 or helo's but I always told myself that if I had the grades for jets, then that is what I would put down first. Luckily, my on-wing was the most awesome instructor primary had to offer and I think that went a long ways in helping me get to where I am right now. I had heard plenty of people hating on jets esp in the primary environment but I really didn't pay much attention to it. I knew what I wanted and that's what I worked for from day one.

Realize that both communities have their differences and they are vast. I prefer flying alone so there is no better way to achieve than the jet community. Now, there is the chance that I may end up in prowlers and i'm perfectly fine with that. All I can tell you is that if you have always wanted to fly jets and you can pull off the grades for it, put it down. At the end of the day, the only person you have to look in the mirror is yourself so work as hard as possible. Don't fall for whatever it is some helo guy tries to sell you in the primary environment and for that matter, just learn to ignore 95% of the stuff people like to tell you about your next potential duty station. Some people have a horrible experience and some people have a great experience and it all depends on specific circumstances. Therefore, it doesn't make any sense to buy into a single opinion. Make the best of whatever they throw at you and you will be just fine because its not like you have any other options. Whatever you end up flying, just realize that 99% of friends back home would trade jobs with you in a heartbeat...but i'm willing to bet you would never want to give it up. Select jets and be happy if you get them.

 

[FLY_USMC]

When this question comes up, I turn to "old faithful".....my Primary story. To make it short, one of my best friends let the helo nazi's get into his head that flying Cobra's was the end-all be-all of Marine aviation. Don't get me wrong, Cobra's are neat, but he had jet grades and was slated for a Kingsville class. He decided that he wanted to fly the Cobra and that's all he wanted and no matter how much I told him he'd regret it, that's what he wanted. So he got the Senior Marine, a stand up guy, to get him a Helo slot. He got it. And the quality spread nazi's gave him CH-53's in a time where Cobra slots were like fat guys in the Navy. #2 doesn't always get what he wants, case in point. He has asked me on more than one occasion what it takes to transfer...though I haven't a clue. Sure, pick helo's, you're not guaranteed the Cobra or Hueys. Picks jets, and you're pretty much guaranteed a sweet ride. I mean lets be honest, in the end, in only matters how cool you look pulling up to the ramp or at an airshow! Having been "out" of Primary for a little bit, I'll be honest and say I don't think I've met one guy who didn't want jets going into Primary. I don't dog anybody for what they fly until I have to, but it's the truth. I've got 50 friends flying everything from 53's to C-130's and thensome, they all wanted jets. Except one, but she's retarded and yearned for the CH-46?

 

[2Blades]

When I was in VT-2 I was all Cobras from the get go and for a time I wanted jets when I got into forms and aerobatics. I finished VT-2 barely making jet grades and I got helos. I wouldn't change it for the world.

I think Purdue put it well. Pick your mission and the airframe will come to you.

 

[phrogdriver]

Picks jets, and you're pretty much guaranteed a sweet ride. I mean lets be honest, in the end, in only matters how cool you look pulling up to the ramp or at an airshow! Having been "out" of Primary for a little bit, I'll be honest and say I don't think I've met one guy who didn't want jets going into Primary. I don't dog anybody for what they fly until I have to, but it's the truth. I've got 50 friends flying everything from 53's to C-130's and thensome, they all wanted jet.

1. Everything in the Marine Corps is a pretty sweet ride.

2. I hope you're joking about the airshow bit--basing your opinion on what's cool to people who know nothing about aviation is retarded.

3. You haven't met enough people. Plenty don't want jets going into Primary.

Pick what you want to fly, simple as that. You won't look back with regret no matter what. Try to get what you want, ask for what you want, and never play "coulda, woulda, shoulda," even if it doesn't end up EXACTLY how you figured.

 

[E5B]

I never wanted jets and there are plenty of folks on here that knew me way before I got into the pipeline that can confirm that. I was one of the "freaks" that wanted helos (specifically assault support) all the way. There were several SNA's from my peer group that wanted helos and a few even went jets against their wish. Fly_USMC, I think you are a little brain washed and need to get over yourself, not everyone wants to be you or have your job.

Why did I want helos? It probably came from my grunt days when I was a part of two MEUs. I gained a lot of respect for the helo community and somewhere along the way I decided thats what I wanted to do. After a demanding ground mission there was no better sound than a section of shitters or phrogs with a mixed section of skids as escort inbound to pick us up. That meant no more walking that day and a nice cool ride back to the boat/base. Don't get me wrong, the jet mission is a good one but not one I wanted. CAS from 10,000 feet or EW from 36K is not how I wanted to support the grunts.

I'm not here to bash jets, a lot of my close friends fly them. I also realize they are a necessity but to say everyone wants them is going a little overboard.

Take a close look at EVERY platform/mission and the find the positive in each one because you never know what you're going to get.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Gatordev]

Without intending to offend any prop or helo guys, I want to point out that a lot of the information you are getting about the various platforms is coming from predominantly helo guys, and may be biased. This is not uncommon as most of the fellas in primary squadrons are helo guys.

One thing to consider is that you get a pretty one sided view in primary. Maybe times have changed, but when I went through there was not a single jet-background instructor in my squadron, or the base for that matter. I heard a lot of bad gouge and opinions about the jet community that turned out not to be true.

Fortunately, for the Marines, this isn't true now. There's currently several Hornet and Harrier guys at -6 w/ several more about to come out of the FITU. The Marines have finally figured out that not having someone there to recruit is a bad thing, so they've detailed (excuse me, "monitored") more guys to go to Primary.

Ave8tor:

As has been said, look over some older threads, but also hunt down those pointy nose guys at -6. Ask your onwing who they are and why you're asking if you don't know. They'll be more than happy to answer questions.