NPQ for aviation. What other designator should I choose?

[Beefalo]

Talked to NAMI three times and told no three times. They were very helpful and understanding but just couldnt be done. I have been active duty enlisted ET1 for eight years and have a bachelor's degree. Ultimate goal is to commission just having a tough time deciding what to put as designation one and two for OCS. I have always wanted SNA or SNFO and didnt give much thought to other designators until recently. My understanding is if you get pro rec for your first choice the other communities dont even look at it. For aspiring and current officers if you could not do pilot or NFO what community would you go into? Ive narrowed it down to three for me.

Aviation Maintenance Duty Officer (AMDO)

Pro:
1. Not an aviator but still get to work in aviation.
2. Relatively good quality of life underway and inport compared to SWO. Not standing multiple watches underway and inport (dont know if AMDO even stand watches underway?) , if part of squadron dont have to worry about GQ, DC, and other ship company events (used to drive me crazy as a black shoe seeing all the airdales just chill during GQ or leaving our spaces trashed after they left and we had to clean it).
3. Large prior enlisted community.

Cons:

1. Might suck seeing all the other officers get to fly and I cant. If there is only one or two AMDO in a squadron could get loss career wise if your DH/XO/CO dont know the career progression of AMDO.
2. Every officer does admin work but most of AMDO seems to be admin. Unlike pilot, NFO, SWO, and IW officers who learn specific jobs related to their warfare specialty the AMDO seems to be more of a support role.
3. Im not an aviation maintainer so my enlisted experience may not be as relevant compared to SWO.
4. Not as many duty station options compared to SWO. Limited to squadrons and big decks.

SWO

Pro:
1. Direct combat role vice support. Sounds the most exciting outside of pilot and NFO. Not limited to admin and support like AMDO but can drive the ship as OOD, stand watch in CIC as TAO, be a Chief Engineer, etc.
2. Best choice for port visits and and duty stations. Small boys visit many of the ports big decks cannot and with a large community there is a better chance to get stationed where I want due to sheer numbers.
3. Lots of direct leadership at all levels. Being the XO and CO of a warship as an O4 or O5 compared to a department head as an AMDO would be very appealing.
4. As a black shoe my enlisted experience in areas such as 3m, DC, GQ, INSURV, etc. would be relevant.

Cons:
1. Command can be hit or miss. SWO seems to be a community living on two extremes. People either seem to like being a SWO or hate it. People say SWOS eat their young, back stab, are unprofessional compared to aviators, etc.
2. Quality of life would be the hardest. Lots of watches underway and inport, irregular sleep schedule underway, having to sleep on the ship on duty days, more time underway compared to squadron commands, sounds like one of the most stressful officer communities.


SWO-IW (information warfare). I really dont know too much about this community compared to others. Seems to be a community that is still defining its role in the Navy.

Pros:
1. Technical oriented. As an ET some of the stuff they cover wouldnt be too alien to me.
2. Lots of variety in assignments after initial SWO tour. Can be attached to submarines, surface ships, even have a few aviation billets, and IA/GSA.
3. Large prior enlisted community.

Cons:
1. Lots of staff duty from what one my interviewing officers told me
2. Like I said dont know too much about this community to list alot of pros and cons. I can get a visual picture of what a SWO and AMDO does but I cant get a visual on what an IW who is at FT. Meade or one of those other super secret squirrel places do.


Ive been switching back and forth between listing AMDO or SWO first. SWO sounds fun and exciting but am afraid the quality of life and leadership issues may be so bad I would become very disgruntled. AMDO is still aviation and is the safe bet in terms of quality of life but I may get bored with it. Least with SWO and SWO-IW I wouldnt be limited just to admin type work.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

If you get pro rec for your first choice you still go to boards for the others unless you specify you want to take that spot now, it is a safety measure in case something happens with the first choice.

Some other things to think of, AMDO and SWO IW have very low numbers and very low selection percentages, SWO has high selection percentages.

In general IDC doesn't pick a person that doesn't put and IDC designator as #1, Supply does the same, and I have heard whispers that AMDO follows the same thought. SWO doesn't care where you put them.

 

[Renegade One]

...For aspiring and current officers if you could not do pilot or NFO what community would you go into? ...

I'd go for any other "Unrestricted Line" designator I qualified for before anything else. For you, I imagine that's "SWO" or "SWO/NUC", depending upon your academic creds. URL has, later in life, many. many "off-ramps" to specific niches that you may gain an affinity for. Others paths are more limiting, although there's nothing wrong with any of them, if that's what you know you already want.

Sorry for the "Whammy". It happens to many.

 

[snake020]

It depends on what you want to do. Are you certain you want to have a full career in the Navy and want to stay on the front edge of operations and someday have command-at-sea? If so, go with Renegade One's advice and pick another URL designator. However be warned that SWOs tend to eat their own and spend a lot of time at sea away from family.

I don't know how AMDO is in the Navy, but in the Air Force the job typically had the longest hours ensuring the planes kept flying. Some hated it, some found it very rewarding because they directly saw the impact.

 

[BusyBee604]

I don't know how AMDO is in the Navy, but in the Air Force the job typically had the longest hours ensuring the planes kept flying. Some hated it, some found it very rewarding because they directly saw the impact.

I've been in 5 different A-4 Squadrons over a 12-year span, and NEVER served with an AMDO who didn't love his job. However, all but one were prior E-6-9 LDOs... with years of 'hands on' A/C maintenance experience.

In addition, our "GroundPounders" were every bit a Ready Room member, as was the Skipper down through the Bull JO!
BzB

 

[sevenhelmet]

Based on my personal experience, I'd go with AMDO since the squadron lifestyle suits me. In the squadrons I've been a part of, pounders (AMDOs/LDOs) are part of the wardroom and enjoy a similar lifestyle to aircrew (minus flight suits and flying.)

I'll wager your life will be much tougher as a SWO (was my last choice when I selected), but as others have said, it's URL which gives you options to find a suitable niche within a larger community.

You've got a good pro/con list there, sounds like you're thinking things through. Good luck!

 

[Beefalo]

Thanks for input all. Hopefully I get selected for at least one community which will make the decision much easier. Either way I think I will be happy in any field. Being an officer is my goal anything else is icing on the cake. I am glad to here AMDO appear to carry their own weight around the wardroom as I feared being a non aviator would not be a good fit in a squadron.

 

[phrogpilot73]

SWO-IW (information warfare). I really dont know too much about this community compared to others. Seems to be a community that is still defining its role in the Navy.

IW is hardly still defining its role in the Navy. IW used to be Cryptologist. It's been around for a while.

Where are you stationed? PSW (my wife) is a former SWO, who lat moved to IW. She could probably address some of your concerns/questions about both communities.

URL has, later in life, many. many "off-ramps" to specific niches that you may gain an affinity for. Others paths are more limiting, although there's nothing wrong with any of them, if that's what you know you already want.

Are you saying that RL has less off ramps? Full disclosure here - I only know of URL/RL based on my wife's career, but it seems as though career-enchancing wickets are less defined in the RL (at least what she does), which leads to MORE off ramps, not less. True, she'll be in IW billets the whole time, but even then... FWIW - here's an example. She was a SWO (Amphib/CruDes) then lat moved. Went to Ft Meade and did stuff (I'm not allowed to know), deployed to Baghdad from Ft Meade. Got orders to Phibron 6. Was the CRC (Cryptologic Resource Coordinator), but as is always the case doing more with less, they realized that her background enabled her to do more - so she at one point was the acting N7, N3, etc... Now she's at CSFTL as the Flag CRC. She gets underway on Carriers and Big Deck Amphibs primarily. She's learning a ton about what the Air Wing does, and since the Air Shop keeps insisting that any UAV ops are "Intel" - she has gotten some UAV planning thrown her way (of course, the Air Shop also knows she's married to a Pilot, who is a JTAC, who is also a former RSO at Camp Lejeune). Next set of orders is taking her to Joint Forces Staff College to teach IO. There's a possibility that she'll also end up as adjunct faculty at ODU while she's there.

I have to say, I'm envious of her career path. Coming from somewhere that had very concrete, solid career wickets - it appears that her career is what she makes it - and she can be successful. There are some career wickets - but they are definitely more flexible in how she hits them than the USMC Phrog community ever was.

 

[Renegade One]

...Are you saying that RL has less off ramps? ...

Well, your bride's experience surely trumps what was just an impression I had. So…if I did say that, thanks for giving the OP better and more current info.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I'll do what I can to answer them.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

A bit more good info for the OP on IW, IW likes prior enlisted/fleet applicants, last FY around 1/3 were AD selects, the IW selects I know about that were prior move that prior/fleet total up to 50%

 

[Beefalo]

Phrogshoes'wife thank you for your insight. I am stationed in Pensacola. Can you give me your thought process about why you transferred from SWO to IW? What do you like/dislike about both of the communities you were part of? I can get a visual representation in my mind of what a traditional SWO and AMDO does as I have seen what they do directly and indirectly but never dealt with anything IW except for some ESWS training about SLQ-32. With OPSEC in mind can you provide any details on what a "typical day" is in the life of an IW officer.

NavyOffRec. The SWO-IW package is due Jan 7 and SWO package is due Feb 1. I was unable to find a SWO to interview with (partially my fault since I didnt start on my package until November). I am thinking of two routes here. Either asking for a waiver for the interview or deleting SWO as a designator and submit by Jan. 7 for SWO-IW and AMDO. Prior to Feb. 1 I could probably locate a SWO or at least do VTC and submit the same package with the addition of a SWO interview. What are your thoughts?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

NavyOffRec. The SWO-IW package is due Jan 7 and SWO package is due Feb 1. I was unable to find a SWO to interview with (partially my fault since I didnt start on my package until November). I am thinking of two routes here. Either asking for a waiver for the interview or deleting SWO as a designator and submit by Jan. 7 for SWO-IW and AMDO. Prior to Feb. 1 I could probably locate a SWO or at least do VTC and submit the same package with the addition of a SWO interview. What are your thoughts?

The IDC boards are infrequent, so to be honest if you can't find a SWO submit and see what happens, don't take any chance of missing this IDC board, especially since they are talking about increasing the frequency of Pilot/NFO/SWO boards.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I had some not so great experiences as a SWO. I know some things have changed in that community so it's probably different than when I was in the community. IW is an interesting community with many types of people. I didn't like being away from the fleet which is why I've taken the last two jobs. I don't like that from now until the end of my career that I'll be a staff officer. That said it's nice to be able to choose my path. A typical day for us means many different things and is dependent on job. Your first tour will send you to one of the big 4 NIOCs to qualify. You could work the national side or the tactical side and see a number of different jobs in your first tour. Your second tour would be a tactical job. If you go on the detailer website you'll find our career progression. We're not as locked in on milestones as the URL guys which is nice. You have to do them but the order isn't a mandated thing.

SWO IW is a great option but if you don't want to be a SWO then I wouldn't put it down. It's a lot of work for some place you don't stay. Our community doesn't take a lot of people because our manning is pretty healthy right now. Being a prior does help but being a CT would help more. We like taking people familiar with the community.
You might be able to do a VTC. I've never done an interview that way but you may find someone wiling to. Again that is your call as to whether you want to join that community.

If I were you I'd head over and try to talk to someone over at Corry Station. They can help give you some insight. Try the NCOBC instructors or one of the guys down there for the CRC or SIWC course. They'll be happy to talk to you and can get into details I can't get into on an open forum. I'd also call the community manager. He's happy to talk to anyone about the community and can walk you through the career progression.

A kind of off the topic question, but under what circumstance would a straight IW get sent to a ship for a first tour? We had an IW that we sent to OCS who's first tour was a LCC, he was kind of surprised as well and he was not a SWO IW.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I've been in the community 7 years and that is the first time I've ever heard of that happening.

This was before the IDC qual if that helps, we thought it was because it was an LCC

EDIT: disregard, I just remembered another conversation and this guy was IP not IW.