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Serious Question!!!

K

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
phrogpilot73 said:
As much as it pains me to say this, I agree with Brett and Trader on this one.

He HAS informed his chain of command. He's a fucking E-4 for god's sake. His chain of command STARTS with his LPO, then goes up from there. If his LCPO/DivO fails to inform the headshed, that's THEIR balls to get crushed, not his.

Take a step back and think back to when you were an E-4. It's not like you wandered into the CO's office to break some bad news to him regardless of what your LPO/LCPO (NCOIC/SNCOIC) said. You let THEM handle the issue, or you got crushed. As well you should have.

OP - If you've informed your LPO/LCPO, probably the highest you should go to make sure the command knows is your DivO.
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Phrog - Just so there's no confusion, I'm in agreement with you - he's done all he can since the incident, and has dealt with the right people at his level.

phantom1914 said:
We dont even know the outcome of this because its so new its only at the LPO LCPO level.
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Based on the above statement, I just wanted him to understand that it's most likely not an "in-shop" incident being handled by his LCPO - it's an incident that will receive command-level attention. He needs to know that he should be prepared to have a chat with his CMC (or higher).
 
gotta_fly

gotta_fly

Well-Known Member
pilot
I'm in agreement that the OP has done the right thing by his chain of command; my comment was more of an anecdotal response to Trader.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
robav8r said:
You mean like this guy ?
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Abuse of the law, IMO. So, floating down a river drunk in a raft (or inner tube) = DUI, floating down a river sans raft =/= DUI. I wonder where they come down on floating down a river in a PFD, or one of those water noodle thingies. If they're concerned about his personal safety, get him on public intox, but making the linked example a DUI is fucking outrageous.
 
robav8r

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Brett327 said:
Abuse of the law, IMO. So, floating down a river drunk in a raft (or inner tube) = DUI, floating down a river sans raft =/= DUI. I wonder where they come down on floating down a river in a PFD, or one of those water noodle thingies. If they're concerned about his personal safety, get him on public intox, but making the linked example a DUI is fucking outrageous.
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Perhaps, but it actually happened !!!
 
Harrier Dude

Harrier Dude

Living the dream
gotta_fly said:
I'm in agreement that the OP has done the right thing by his chain of command; my comment was more of an anecdotal response to Trader.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
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This. He has informed his chain of command. What his CoC does with this is up to them.

What SHOULD happen: his Chief chews his ass, documents it in his notebook (NOT his SRB), and lets the DivO know about it. The DivO should use the judgement that God gave him, along with the discretion that his Command has entrusted him with (whether that be wide or narrow, depending on Command) and decide if it needs to go further up. I would hope that it would end here. Not everything has to go to the CO for action. Handle it at your level if you can. Part of your job is to know the difference.

What will likely happen: this will get kicked up the chain like a hot potato, with each level slightly less afraid than the last to act like a leader and more concerned with covering their own ass and take care of it at their level. I'm guessing this will be handled (sadly) at the Commander level.

Either the Commanders have stripped their subordinate leaders of authority to take action, or those leaders have surrendered it. Maybe a little of both.

Like I originally predicted, this will probably not end well.
 
BACONATOR

BACONATOR

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Harrier Dude said:
This. He has informed his chain of command. What his CoC does with this is up to them.

What SHOULD happen: his Chief chews his ass, documents it in his notebook (NOT his SRB), and lets the DivO know about it. The DivO should use the judgement that God gave him, along with the discretion that his Command has entrusted him with (whether that be wide or narrow, depending on Command) and decide if it needs to go further up. I would hope that it would end here. Not everything has to go to the CO for action. Handle it at your level if you can. Part of your job is to know the difference.

What will likely happen: this will get kicked up the chain like a hot potato, with each level slightly less afraid than the last to act like a leader and more concerned with covering their own ass and take care of it at their level. I'm guessing this will be handled (sadly) at the Commander level.

Either the Commanders have stripped their subordinate leaders of authority to take action, or those leaders have surrendered it. Maybe a little of both.

Like I originally predicted, this will probably not end well.
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That good judgement is nice on paper, but if/when something else happens, and it comes out that there was a minor infraction that you kept at the DIVO level, stand by for an ass-chewing by your DH and/or XO, CO. You're right, but revisionist history makes you an accessory after the fact no matter HOW innocuous the infraction. Therefore, we aren't given any sort of judiciary discretion in how to handle our guys screwing up. Unless we want to take a stand and, in essence, gamble with our own careers. Not the way I like it, but the way it is.
 
phrogdriver

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Usually "arrest" is on the list of CCIRs or flash report criteria. Unfortunately, once that term gets thrown around, "guilty until proven innocent" kicks in. If it truly was a "catch and release," and he never was charged with anything, then it can be left at the NCO level without worry, as long as "arrest" isn't a listed CCIR. Hopefully, the CO is enough of a reasonable man that a "Hey sir, we've got it under control, but you may want to know..." does not result in a brown star cluster being fired. If he isn't, then you may have bigger problems. One of the keys is good small unit leadership, though. I had a Marine who got detained three times, but not charged, for being around when various bad shit went down. At some point, it stops being just bad luck.
 
Brett327

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Some of you folks are nuking this. What is this, Divo for dummies? Having this get handled at the CPO level doesn't mean you have to keep the CO out of the loop. Happens all the time, and a good CO/CMC team has already established ground rules and disciplinary SOP so the CoC knows what the CO expects to be informed of and at what level he wants certain things handled at.
 
K

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
Brett327 said:
Happens all the time, and a good CO/CMC team has already established ground rules and disciplinary SOP so the CoC knows what the CO expects to be informed of and at what level he wants certain things handled at.
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There are a lot of assumptions in this statement.

(BTW, this is brought up for discussion only - not as a reference to the OP's incident.)
 
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