Big Ocean and little ships make finding "Mother" difficult sometimes

[BACONATOR]

Do you realize how long they have been talking about getting rid of VOR and TACAN stations? I'm sure the time is nearing, but I don't see it happening that quickly. We still have NDB's scattered around the PNW and AK, and that has been an obsolete system (aside from their use in parallel with ILS) for longer than I have been alive, short of maybe island use.

Keeping in mind this is purely conjecture, but I have a feeling that NDB integration into ILS is a big part of why they are keeping up with maintaining the NDB system. Slowly over time I think you're going to see a lot of the Compass Locators and Marker beacons being replaced by GPS fixes (already on a lot of ILS approaches) and once the NDB requirement for ILS is removed, then the remaining NDBs won't make much of a case for keeping them around (not part of the en route structure, sensitive to wx etc).

For the military, however, I'm sure it'll be around for a while since in durkistan, they don't have a lot of VORTACs...

/end bullshit

 

[exhelodrvr]

Or the British, who still use said method. I didn't mean for it to sound like using Tacan is a problem. Quite the contrary. I meant it as an age old system that keeps working just like we need (when the shoes remember to turn it on).

Yeah, and when there aren't two ships within 20 miles of each other using the same channel.

 

[phrogpilot73]

TACAN. GPS doesn't do much good if your airfield is moving.

For Helo guys flying at lower altitudes, we'll use the GPS to get us going in the general direction of the ship's PIM (which even when they screw it up is close enough to get us to receive their TACAN). Once we've got a sweet lock on the TACAN, we disregard the GPS and use only TACAN.

 

[Pags]

For Helo guys flying at lower altitudes, we'll use the GPS to get us going in the general direction of the ship's PIM (which even when they screw it up is close enough to get us to receive their TACAN). Once we've got a sweet lock on the TACAN, we disregard the GPS and use only TACAN.

And sanity checked PIGEONS (have had a control tell me that the ship was in Iran).

 

[Gatordev]

For Helo guys flying at lower altitudes, we'll use the GPS to get us going in the general direction of the ship's PIM (which even when they screw it up is close enough to get us to receive their TACAN). Once we've got a sweet lock on the TACAN, we disregard the GPS and use only TACAN.

...or when you have Radar, it's used.

I was flying on to a CG as the NVGI for another det's workups. We plug in the ship's position into the nav system (GPS) and head off to 40-some miles south of Oahu. As we get closer, we see something out there, but no TACAN. Based off the radar cross-section and finally the MK1 eyeball, we figure out the ship is in the right spot, but it's a DDG and not our CG. Hmm..now what. Eh, let's keep going, we've got the fuel. Some 20 or 30 miles later, we spot something else on the radar which ends up being a CG but no TACAN. Can't get too close to it due to SPY, but we finally figure out it's ours and get comms to tell them to turn on their shite.

Seriously, one of the most advanced weapons systems out there, and its usefulness is totally defeated by some numbnuts who didn't flip a switch when they knew we were coming.

 

[Pags]

Seriously, one of the most advanced weapons systems out there, and its usefulness is totally defeated by some numbnuts who didn't flip a switch when they knew we were coming.

Was trying to get to a CG (it's always a CG, isn't it?) for their avcert off the vacapes. we called on their control freq, and we could hear the mic click and the dead space where they were trying to talk. asked for a long count in the blind and DF'd in their direction. Came upon one CG, but looking at the side number ruled that one out. Next up we stumbled upon an LPD and then finally our target. Got comms with them on fleet tac and eventually got them to come up on the freqs their overhead said they'd be on and to turn on their tacan.

 

[Gatordev]

I would say that it's normally a FFG, but maybe our data points can alter the perception.

 

[TopDog]

The rationale for it's failure to be included in each subsequent software revision for the 60S is that Link 16 will make the TACAN track function obsolete...sounds great, except for the fact that not every 60S will have Link 16.

 

[picklesuit]

Mode 2 works too...

 

[Flugelman]

It seems to me that the failure to set up comms and navigation by the ships' crews could eventually result in a helo going in the drink...

Are there ever any consequences to these kinds pf performance failures?

 

[flyn4pride]

Do you realize how long they have been talking about getting rid of VOR and TACAN stations? I'm sure the time is nearing, but I don't see it happening that quickly. We still have NDB's scattered around the PNW and AK, and that has been an obsolete system (aside from their use in parallel with ILS) for longer than I have been alive, short of maybe island use.

Yeah I actually work on the National Discontinuance of Navaids for the switch to NextGen at FAA HQ and I can tell you VOR's and TACANS will be around for quite a few more years because frankly there isn't a great back up for the new NAS

 

[Pags]

It seems to me that the failure to set up comms and navigation by the ships' crews could eventually result in a helo going in the drink...

If the helo crew is on the spot and concerned for their own well being, then no. We have SOPs that prevent you from heading to far out too sea without a positive position report. Generally, you want to maintain enough gas to be able to bingo back to the beach if you can't find the boat.

 

[Gatordev]

Mode 2 works too...

Riiiiight. As does Mode 4, but that assumes your interrogator actually works, which is a crap shoot on many an aircraft.

It seems to me that the failure to set up comms and navigation by the ships' crews could eventually result in a helo going in the drink...

Are there ever any consequences to these kinds pf performance failures?

I'd say usually it will result in someone landing on the deck of the ship, regardless of permission, before someone goes into the drink. SPY ships pose problems for the Bravos w/ our gear, but if it came to it, I'd buzz the bridge and give a call on Channel 16 long before I'm in any kind of fuel situation.

 

[Pags]

I'd say usually it will result in someone landing on the deck of the ship, regardless of permission, before someone goes into the drink. SPY ships pose problems for the Bravos w/ our gear, but if it came to it, I'd buzz the bridge and give a call on Channel 16 long before I'm in any kind of fuel situation.

At the end of the day, it's my ass as the HAC for putting my bird in the drink, regardless of the competence of the Shoes.

There's a story I've heard about a Phrog landing on a container ship due to a miscalculated bingo...can't vouch for the veracity of it, but it does include the important learning point that it's better to be alive and wingless then dead (even if it means the entire fleet now knows that you can't calculate fuel burn worth a damn).

 

[wlawr005]

Or the British, who still use said method. I didn't mean for it to sound like using Tacan is a problem. Quite the contrary. I meant it as an age old system that keeps working just like we need (when the shoes remember to turn it on).

what really sucks about the british is that port/starboard is red/green and a left hand pattern is an anticlockwise pattern to them