Government May Nationalize the Auto Industry

[SkywardET]

My my, sometimes I am astounded by the things I say (type). C'est la vie.

Still doesn't change that UAW needs to die.

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

I'm sometimes surprised at how little hatred I feel towards unions generally and UAW specifically, given some very damning personal anecdotal evidence against them.

My mother was essentially forced out of her job for some very dubious reasons. She was a legal assistant for a UAW law firm, and had finally made the decision to get a new car. She got one she liked very much--a PT Cruiser. It's made by GM, right? Well this particular one was assembled in Mexico, not by a UAW worker. According to the fine print of her employment contract, my mother's employment was at risk because, even though she was driving a GM vehicle to work, it was not a UAW-made GM vehicle.

First of all, if a company doesn't offer any incentive or assistance (other than employment) to drive a certain type of car to work, how can it dare mandate what type of vehicle is driven to work? I know this legal argument would be defeated in court, but that hardly means it should be.

Secondly, #$%& UAW. Seriously, the organization needs to just die out completely. Yes, in terms of its history, it did help stop abuses by management against workers when it and other unions were first formed. Now it has supplanted those abuses with its own atrocious and much more corrupt abuses. When an organization built to fight for one moral purpose then mutates to fight only for its own survival and empowerment, it has lived beyond its moral mandate and must be eliminated.

A PT Cruiser is made by Daimler-Chrysler. It's not even a GM vehicle.

 

[Flash]

Anyone remember 1966? Government mandated safety? That forced a large number of auto makers out of business, I think took 140 models off the road. Studebaker? Nash, Austin Healey etc, etc atc. One of the biggies was bumper height - bumpers had to be a certain number of inches measured from roadway. Bureaucrats’ theory being if all bumpers match equals safer cars. In spare time might want to cruise the parking lot and see how things went - how matching bumpers are - say between a Prius and Escalade - I am certain they match. Almost?

And none of those companies were having serious trouble beforehand. Funny how Studebaker got out of the car business in 1966, did the government safety standards effect the car industry that fast? Or were the companies in ailing health already? I am thinking the later, the not former.

It is easy to blame the government for such woes, glossing over the failings of the companies themselves. I wonder if the same happens with GM and Chrysler? And just in case you were wondering, I seriously doubt the government starts calling the shots at the car companies if there is 'nationalization', which I doubt happens anyways. It will be much like Chrysler under Iaccoca, taking a government loan and doing largely as they see fit.

 

[GroundPounder]

She got one she liked very much--a PT Cruiser. It's made by GM, right? Well this particular one was assembled in Mexico, not by a UAW worker. According to the fine print of her employment contract, my mother's employment was at risk because, even though she was driving a GM vehicle to work, it was not a UAW-made GM vehicle.

I think that you would find that many ( most ? ) UAW workers would consider themselves employees of the UAW not GM, Ford, or Chrysler.

The UAW tactic has always been to target whichever company was most profitable at the time and hard ball them to negotiate a new contract that the other brands would have to go along with. In a way I can't blame them for getting what they could, however to think that it would go on for ever seems a little bit short sighted. The golden goose may not be quite dead, but the buzzards are on the horizon.

 

[scoolbubba]

And none of those companies were having serious trouble beforehand. Funny how Studebaker got out of the car business in 1966, did the government safety standards effect the car industry that fast? Or were the companies in ailing health already? I am thinking the later, the not former.

It is easy to blame the government for such woes, glossing over the failings of the companies themselves. I wonder if the same happens with GM and Chrysler? And just in case you were wondering, I seriously doubt the government starts calling the shots at the car companies if there is 'nationalization', which I doubt happens anyways. It will be much like Chrysler under Iaccoca, taking a government loan and doing largely as they see fit.

the only problem with this is, Iacocca isn't coming back to run Chrysler, and no one has a plan with what to do with the money. This is like lending a crackhead a c note and expecting to get it back.

Also, in the Iacocca bailout, the gov didn't actually lend chrysler the money, it only guaranteed the loans. Credit was easier to come by when your uncle sam is the co-signer, at least in those days when uncle's money was still good.

Bailing out UAW for cooking the 3 golden geese doesn't seem wise to me, but what do i know, I'm just a sucker taxpayer throwing good money after bad one paycheck at a time.

 

[HercDriver]

Exactly....

this is a bailout of the UAW pension fund.....nothing more.

How in the hell can you pay some asshole $80 an hour for putting the same rivet in the same hole and expect that company to make a profit. Rust-belters in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, need to diversify like N. Carolina, or those folks will be in economic shambles for a long time.

So it isn't management's fault for not thinking ahead in what cars they brought to the marketplace..."gas will be cheap forever and everyone will always want a giant SUV". It ain't UAW that made those decisions; assign blame where blame is due. Even though quality has increased greatly with American cars, high gas prices and the inability of people to get a loan due to the credit crises is causing the Big 3 to tank.

I'd love to see the pay scale of which you speak where the single rivet guy gets $80 an hour.

 

[MasterBates]

UAW makes ridiculous money. Not $80 per hour, but a good chunk of the line, which is semi-skilled labor at best, makes over $100K with OT and extra pays.

 

[Stick]

UAW makes ridiculous money. Not $80 per hour, but a good chunk of the line, which is semi-skilled labor at best, makes over $100K with OT and extra pays.

I just saw some numbers on UAW workers that is not close to $80/hr, but the site did say the actual pays are higher than the hourly rate quoted on the site due to things like shift premiums, OT, and other things.

http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php

 

[BurghGuy]

$80/hr!! Great-googaa-moogaa! Thats over $150K per year! With only working 40 hours a week to boot!! I KNEW college was a bad idea. I should've just learned to put in that damn rivet and joined the union....

Seriously, theres no way in hell thats the average pay. No doubt it's higher than non-UAW pay, and I'm sure it's more than I'd be willing to believe (see MBs previous) but $80/hr is ridiculous, when considering OT and other pay would put the yearly total well over $200K.

I know this book has gotten alot of play recently, but for anyone who likes capitalism and thinks nationalization of private industry is a bad idea, read Atlas Shrugged. In fact, if you think it's a GOOD idea, read this book. It will probably change your mind.

 

[Flash]

I know this book has gotten alot of play recently, but for anyone who likes capitalism and thinks nationalization of private industry is a bad idea, read Atlas Shrugged. In fact, if you think it's a GOOD idea, read this book. It will probably change your mind.

You do realize it is fiction, right?

 

[exo]

You do realize it is fiction, right?

*saves ammo for a more important fight*

 

[Flash]

So is the bible, but that changed how a lot of people think.

I really don't want to get into theology, but that is a statement that many would dispute.

 

[exo]

Heh, just poking the sleeping bear.

 

[whitesoxnation]

I watched the Congressional hearings yesterday and laughed at the CEOs not being able to answer why they should be given money during hard times when they couldn't stay alive during easier times.

Bob Nardelli is the CEO of Chrysler and running them into the ground just like he did with Home Depot.

Retards shouldn't be allowed to run these companies.

 

[phrogpilot73]

There's two problems that is causing the big three to fail. One - unions, and two - management. My google-fu is weak today, but as previously mentioned the average wage of a union worker in an auto plant is $75/hour, non union is $45/hour, and the average wage for the entire country is $28/hour. GM made a poor management decision to continue to produce SUVs, mainly because they were so profitable. But you can't blame them for not deciding to build the affordable ones that are in such high demand right now... Why? Because of all the contracts that have been negotiated and signed between the unions and management it actually costs them money if they sell the affordable car. Something like (and I heard the number, but can't find it) $1000/car. So they're hemorrhaging money.

Big 3's management wants to take a loan, with no plan forward, no suggestion of how they're going to fix the mess. What they need to do is declare Chapter 11, so they can restructure, renegotiate union contracts, etc... THEN take the money. Then they'd survive. Right now, I don't think they can with what's been proposed.