Government May Nationalize the Auto Industry

[Random8145]

I don't know...how about spending your money on a better vehicle than all the above? There is a lot of room for improvement for GM/ford but you can only polish a turd so much before you just have to start from the ground up.

Cadillac is actually a pretty good brand now.

Maybe ford and GM should use all those profits from their European sales and all that money they made selling POS gas guzzling vehicles over the past 20 years to improve their product instead of crying bankruptcy. I say let them fail...it may be the best option available.

Yes, they should fail and go into bankruptcy, restructure and get rid of the unions. It is very difficult for them to produce quality vehicles (although they have been managing to make improvements as of late) because of the unions.

However, it is also incredibly difficult for them to be profitable because of the insane union requirements.

Meh, we bailed out Savings and Loan, we bailed out the airlines, we bailed out the banks, insurers, and investors, what else is new?

http://www.propublica.org/special/government-bailouts

The financial system is a different animal; remember, it's a bit of a utility; you let it shut down completely and it can create a depression and completely cripple the economy. The electrical power companies would be another example; you can't let those fail if they were going to. Also, I believe the airlines did go bankrupt, and restructured.

Buy, or better yet, lease, European?

The Europeans do not make the pickups or SUVs like the Big Three do; if the Big Three get rid of their current pickup and SUV models and then create all-new models from the ground-up that are far better, fine by me, but I mean I do not want to see the outright elimination of pickups and SUVs from the Big 3, just to make eco-cars.

 

[A4sForever]

Tell me again, how it is that the airlines got "bailed out" ... ??

Again, as one who has flown for 3 airlines (which represent possibly the most heavily regulated AND taxed private -- for profit -- industry in America), got furloughed "more than once", went on strike and walked the picket line once as a result of a company inspired "lock-out", was on the receiving end of pay cuts, benefits cuts, lost pensions, is a veteran of two bankruptcies and one failed company ...

"The terrorist attacks of September 11 crippled an already financially troubled industry. To bail out the airlines, President Bush signed into law the Air Transportation Safety and Stabilization Act (ATSS Act), which compensated airlines for the mandatory grounding of aircraft after the attacks (and only restored a portion of the airlines lost revenues for the grounding period) ...a provision inserted into the ATSS Act.... allowed the Treasury to purchase stock at below-market prices from any airline receiving a loan guarantee, allowed the Treasury to earn money. Reports varied on the total net profit (to the Treasury), ranging from $141.7 million to $327 million.

..... Now tell me how that is AGAIN ... just one more time ... that the "airlines got bailed out"??? :icon_rage

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

Also, I believe some airlines did go bankrupt, and restructured.

Fixed.

Not mine. :icon_wink

American Airlines that is.

 

[a2b2c3]

So why is it wrong if the government tells the "big three" what kind of cars to build? Seems they got themselves into this mess because they built the wrong cars anyhow. They seem insistent upon big trucks and fancy SUV's. Seems to me they screwed up and either we should a) let them die, or b) bail them out but with some pretty good conditions...

 

[GroundPounder]

So why is it wrong if the government tells the "big three" what kind of cars to build?

The main reason would be that government control of the means of production and or having a say in what is produced by a private company is not capitalism.

If we move farther in the that direction than we have already our problems have just begun. See Fiat and BMC for examples of how well this doesn't work.

I realize that government will always affect the markets and industry by the rule and regulations that are in place, as well as laws that are enacted, however if they buy into an industry that is a totaly different situation.

Already there have been rumblings that if GM is to receive the bail out then their CEO is going to have to resign. I don't know enough about Mr. Waggoner to have a relevent opinion about if he should stay or go, but I don't think that it is the role of the government to have this much say in the running of a private company.

They have gotten themselves in the mess that they are in, it should be up to them to get out of it, as painful as it may be to the company or a region of the country.

 

[A4sForever]

So why is it wrong if the government tells the "big three" what kind of cars to build?...

You must be joking ...

 

[Random8145]

Seems they got themselves into this mess because they built the wrong cars anyhow. They seem insistent upon big trucks and fancy SUV's. Seems to me they screwed up and either we should a) let them die, or b) bail them out but with some pretty good conditions...

The Big Three and all the other automakers produced pickup trucks and SUVs because that is what so many people have wanted. Even Porsche produced an SUV!

The problem with the Big Three is that pickups and SUVs are pretty much the only type of vehicle they manufacture that people want. For cars, people turn to the foreign manufacturers a lot more, so when the economy goes south and fuel prices are up, and SUV and pickup sales go down, the Big Three have nothing else to sell that people want. They aren't like Toyota, which has good trucks and SUVs, but also good cars people want as well.

Although this has started to change as of late, unfortunately too late I think.

 

[Stick]

Let the big 3 fail. It is their own fault. I saw on the news that if they receive money from the government they are going to pay the union workers high ass wages. That will only be a temporary fix. The news report said the average UAW union member earns about $70/hr and the foreign NON union workers make around $45/hr. The foreign companies are smart because they are in right to work states. This makes the wages lower. The big 3 should leave MI and go to one of these states. It will cost a lot of money and jobs (in MI), but it is one option to help prevent this from happening again.

 

[MasterBates]

When I was working at GM, the JANITORS who were HS dropouts made more and had better benefits than I did as an Engineer.

And it's been that way since at least the 50's when my Sister-In-Law's grandfather went to GMI (same place I went).

 

[The Chief]

Future of GM looks rather grim, stock is hovering at $3, earlier this year it was $40. Today‘s actual value is probably zero, the $3 is most likely speculation on Tax Payer bailout $$$$.

Anyone remember 1966? Government mandated safety? That forced a large number of auto makers out of business, I think took 140 models off the road. Studebaker? Nash, Austin Healey etc, etc atc. One of the biggies was bumper height - bumpers had to be a certain number of inches measured from roadway. Bureaucrats’ theory being if all bumpers match equals safer cars. In spare time might want to cruise the parking lot and see how things went - how matching bumpers are - say between a Prius and Escalade - I am certain they match. Almost?

We will be okay, I feel (note I said I feel; not I think) which seems to be a common ailment around my neck of the woods. More thinking and less feeling would be better. If GM does go boom, some enterprising entity will step forward and offer warranties, for a few dollars, to replace the new car warranties offered by the defunct GM. Toyota (and other) flush with billions and billions of $$$ will step forward to the fire sale and close the vacuum caused by GM’s departure. They will hire some of the millions that lost their jobs, albeit not at those inflated wages. They will probably buy all the spare parts supplies so all those GM vehicles on the road can keep on keeping on. ((I am hoping they will release the alleged 500 SS 396 engines that GM had in deep storage)) They would probably want to scoop up some of the better dealerships, not all. I have the sinking feeling (see did it again) that 2 of the largest dealers in my area are going belly up, soon if not soonest, or may have already. Just a feeling.

I am sure the Government did their job and that the GM pension system is fully funded, so no problem there. Also, we are just in time for the Universal Health Care program because the ex-GM employees are gonna need health care that the ex-Company was to provide.

Don’t worry - be happy.

 

[Mumbles]

When I was working at GM, the JANITORS who were HS dropouts made more and had better benefits than I did as an Engineer.

And it's been that way since at least the 50's when my Sister-In-Law's grandfather went to GMI (same place I went).

Exactly....

this is a bailout of the UAW pension fund.....nothing more.

How in the hell can you pay some asshole $80 an hour for putting the same rivet in the same hole and expect that company to make a profit. Rust-belters in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, need to diversify like N. Carolina, or those folks will be in economic shambles for a long time.

 

[brownshoe]

So why is it wrong if the government tells the "big three" what kind of cars to build? ...

Been tried across the pond. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Leyland The quality hit rock bottom, they produced "shit" cars. Not just one manufacturer, but all! Read the article.

However, Chrysler did borrow a "box full of money," paid it back and turned things around years ago. Difference is the Government didn't own a part of the company.

I’m working with a set of drawings for a new project at Detrick right now. I now know why a friend who is with the Corps of Engineers has asked me to get involved, and to bid the project. BRAC’s involved, and so are "minority set aside” engineers.

Bids are due the middle of next month, and my work is cut out for me. (Sigh) Like I said… I’ve seen the drawings.

Steve

 

[The Chief]

... However, Chrysler did borrow a "box full of money," paid it back and turned things around years ago. Difference is the Government didn't own a part of the company ...

Another difference(s), as I recall. Lee Ioccoca (spell) CEO of Chrysler went to the Government with a plan, a plan of how he was going to lead Chrysler out of it's misery, how he would repay the money, and a restructure of his salary - down to $1 a year. He showed leadership.

As I understand it, GM, and a whole lot of others, just want taxpayer monies.

 

[SkywardET]

I'm sometimes surprised at how little hatred I feel towards unions generally and UAW specifically, given some very damning personal anecdotal evidence against them.

My mother was essentially forced out of her job for some very dubious reasons. She was a legal assistant for a UAW law firm, and had finally made the decision to get a new car. She got one she liked very much--a PT Cruiser. It's made by GM, right? Well this particular one was assembled in Mexico, not by a UAW worker. According to the fine print of her employment contract, my mother's employment was at risk because, even though she was driving a GM vehicle to work, it was not a UAW-made GM vehicle.

First of all, if a company doesn't offer any incentive or assistance (other than employment) to drive a certain type of car to work, how can it dare mandate what type of vehicle is driven to work? I know this legal argument would be defeated in court, but that hardly means it should be.

Secondly, #$%& UAW. Seriously, the organization needs to just die out completely. Yes, in terms of its history, it did help stop abuses by management against workers when it and other unions were first formed. Now it has supplanted those abuses with its own atrocious and much more corrupt abuses. When an organization built to fight for one moral purpose then mutates to fight only for its own survival and empowerment, it has lived beyond its moral mandate and must be eliminated.

 

[brownshoe]

She got one she liked very much--a PT Cruiser. It's made by GM, right?

Someone get this kid a seat.

Steve