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NFO's instructing at Meridian/Kingsville
- Thread starter jarhead
- Start date
Pilots can teach instruments (nav, comms, approaches, etc) & avionics (Flir, radar, etc) to NFO's just as NFO's can easily teach it to pilots.
The problem with NFO's instructing instruments to student pilots at Meridian & Kingsville is that, currently, the students fly in the backseat under the bag for all but 3 maybe 4 instrument hops out of around 20 or so flights, and 2 of those front seat instrument hops are student solo's.
When the T-45D comes along with it's "radar" and other "avionics", that would be a very good fit for I-NFO's at advanced.
At least in the Marine Hornet community, WSO's can get the ACTI qual, which includes instructing BFM (or "ACM" as it's called in advanced). But teaching BFM requires teaching stick & throttle skills and the 100-level "ACM" that's taught to advanced jet students requires a lot of emphasis on that - SNA's have never done anything remotely as dynamic as "ACM" and even as conservative as the IP's try to lead the flight, the students scan & SA can break down very rapidily during these flights, especially the 2v1 flights, requiring the IP taking the controls.
S/F
Just for the record ... and for the sake of the discussion ... when I banged off the end of RW 25 on LSO-Xtrain-FAM-1 heading out into the So. China Sea for God, Country & Glory ... after receiving my "quick & dirty" F-4 NATOPS ground-check (right ... 
) @ NAS CUBI .... who do you suppose was in my backseat ... ??? 
Hint: a VERY courageous, experienced (and/or experienced, foolish w/ a death wish) VF-114 squadron RIO ...
) @ NAS CUBI .... who do you suppose was in my backseat ... ??? Hint: a VERY courageous, experienced (and/or experienced, foolish w/ a death wish) VF-114 squadron RIO ...
Just for the record ... and for the sake of the discussion ... when I banged off the end of RW 25 on LSO-Xtrain-FAM-1 heading out into the So. China Sea for God, Country & Glory ... after receiving my "quick & dirty" F-4 NATOPS ground-check (right ...
Hint: a VERY courageous, experienced (and/or experienced, foolish w/ a death wish) VF-114 squadron RIO ...
Just for the sake of argument... what was the accident rate back then compared to today???:icon_smil
I dunno ... I was never a "safety" wonk ... I just flew "safely", but got it done anyway.Just for the sake of argument... what was the accident rate back then compared to today???:icon_smil
But to address your question, it's probably less today considering our "operational" losses in the combat zone(s) and don't consider the "get it done" mentality of the day in the ol' days. But to put it all into perspective ... with all the emphasis on safety and all the superior equipment that is put forth today ... you boys haven't been doin' too well lately ...
An analysis of U. S. Navy major aircraft accidents during the period Fiscal Year 1972-1974
give the server a little time to load ...
But to address your question, it's probably less today considering our "operational" losses in the combat zone(s) and don't consider the "get it done" mentality of the day in the ol' days. But to put it all into perspective ... with all the emphasis on safety and all the superior equipment that is put forth today ... you boys haven't been doin' too well lately ...
I disagree, shockingly enough. An accident rate half of what it was over 20 years earlier, even while at war, nothing to turn your nose up at.
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=13925&archive=true
So what did I say?? It's more?? ... The same??? ...
Or it's "probably less today" ... ???
You are really becoming fucking boring, Flash.
"... even while at war ... " ???
What is it called, faint praise?
But to address your question, it's probably less today considering our "operational" losses in the combat zone(s) and don't consider the "get it done" mentality of the day in the ol' days. But to put it all into perspective ... with all the emphasis on safety and all the superior equipment that is put forth today ... you boys haven't been doin' too well lately ...
Plus, I thought the old farts were supposed to be the bring ones, with their stories of how it used to be when they walked 2 miles uphill to and from school, etc.
A-4's Not to jump on and attempt to ride the snarling rabid wolf here but I'll assume that as a Paddles from your day you already not only had wings on your chest, but pert near 1000 or so hours when you launched off the pointy end with said brave double anchored soul... (BTW, Scooter was way better at training grey jet fundamentals than Goosehawk...)
there is a subtle difference between the 249 hour dude and the 250 hour dude mentioned earlier, one has wings, the other doesn't! Supposedly, the group of TRACOM IP's the kiddo flew with stamped he is good enough to join the fraternity, not kill any bros, and capable of learning how to put warheads on foreheads day night pitching deck 200 and a half with movlas rigged in odd places.
Nuggets straight outta the RAG (usually) don't fly with RIO's who haven't cruised once at least, they fly with former RAG instructors, or salty kung fu masta backenders who have gained the CO's special confidence. TRACOM studs are watched like hawks on IP's wings (as most single seat nuggets are) for all hops but FAM solo (there are other dudes out in the area to help) and an Air Nav solo or two (usually to familiar fields capable of knowing what the solo qualifier means on their callsign). 99% of TRACOM undergrad pilot training warrants one single anchor in the flight.
This thread may be off track... are they having INFO's teach in the FITU, SNA syllabus, or are they starting up the LIFT (Lead In Fighter Training) that the Brits do with their Hawks??? Teaching certain hops in the FITU may work, LIFT will definetelly work and be cost effective!
there is a subtle difference between the 249 hour dude and the 250 hour dude mentioned earlier, one has wings, the other doesn't! Supposedly, the group of TRACOM IP's the kiddo flew with stamped he is good enough to join the fraternity, not kill any bros, and capable of learning how to put warheads on foreheads day night pitching deck 200 and a half with movlas rigged in odd places.
Nuggets straight outta the RAG (usually) don't fly with RIO's who haven't cruised once at least, they fly with former RAG instructors, or salty kung fu masta backenders who have gained the CO's special confidence. TRACOM studs are watched like hawks on IP's wings (as most single seat nuggets are) for all hops but FAM solo (there are other dudes out in the area to help) and an Air Nav solo or two (usually to familiar fields capable of knowing what the solo qualifier means on their callsign). 99% of TRACOM undergrad pilot training warrants one single anchor in the flight.
This thread may be off track... are they having INFO's teach in the FITU, SNA syllabus, or are they starting up the LIFT (Lead In Fighter Training) that the Brits do with their Hawks??? Teaching certain hops in the FITU may work, LIFT will definetelly work and be cost effective!
bolterking
Member
Natops
This is a very interesting situation developing whether it is true or just rumor. I see a million things wrong with this from experience wise to OPNAV issues....
I have a question to those in the know, are students getting a NATOPS qual now? Or just a safe-for-solo sign off? Does anyone else see the dilema with this and NFO's pairing up with SNA's? The RAG's can get away with this because CAT I students are NATOPS winged aviators.
This is a very interesting situation developing whether it is true or just rumor. I see a million things wrong with this from experience wise to OPNAV issues....
I have a question to those in the know, are students getting a NATOPS qual now? Or just a safe-for-solo sign off? Does anyone else see the dilema with this and NFO's pairing up with SNA's? The RAG's can get away with this because CAT I students are NATOPS winged aviators.
bolterking
Member
SNA=No NATOPS check/Qual
Some interesting emails i have read and bar talk heard on this. I can not beleive Big Navy is going this route.
So are you stating that ALL SNA's are stupid, or are you just speaking for yourself?
-ea6bflyr
Not to get too far off track here, but the Harrier RAG is about to send several of their recently designated 7509's to the TRACOMs to lend assistance too. It's obvious someone's hurting for pilots and fortunately, for once, it's not us. It's lack of quals that's killing us....but we'll save that for another thread.
Ok....you've done it....finally pulled me in.
From what I understand, the Harrier guys going to TRACOM are going for reasons other than TRACOM staffing levels.....a'la the "super-sergrads" of yore.
An SNA in Kingsville is NOT NATOPS qualified....he/she is "safe for solo". That being said, as I understand it, the intention if for the I-NFO's to "teach" late stage forms, instrument and acm. Agree with it? No. Accept it? If I'm told to. FWIW, as a straight turned tub-bubba, I love WSOs....for EXPERIENCED pilots. QOL goes up when the same amount of work is divided among twice the people. But for students who are still trying to find their stride, it's gonna cause problems. And as far as "exposure" to the crew concept? C'mon! We train to be single seat....if you end up in a multi-place aircraft, you will learn crew coordination there. This makes about as much sense as trying to teach NVG's or AAR's in TRACOM....which is to say NONE.
From what I understand, the Harrier guys going to TRACOM are going for reasons other than TRACOM staffing levels.....a'la the "super-sergrads" of yore.
An SNA in Kingsville is NOT NATOPS qualified....he/she is "safe for solo". That being said, as I understand it, the intention if for the I-NFO's to "teach" late stage forms, instrument and acm. Agree with it? No. Accept it? If I'm told to. FWIW, as a straight turned tub-bubba, I love WSOs....for EXPERIENCED pilots. QOL goes up when the same amount of work is divided among twice the people. But for students who are still trying to find their stride, it's gonna cause problems. And as far as "exposure" to the crew concept? C'mon! We train to be single seat....if you end up in a multi-place aircraft, you will learn crew coordination there. This makes about as much sense as trying to teach NVG's or AAR's in TRACOM....which is to say NONE.