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ATSB Questions

HighDimension

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I understand everyone's desire to do well on that test just like any other test, but gouging yourself up, and taking the test multiple times is just inflating what is designed to be a predictor of how well you will do in flight school. Basically, just because you end up getting high scores such as 8s and 9s after taking it 3 times, that does not mean you will not struggle in API, or on the flight side. I do not have exact data, but most people that end up failing twice in API and end up in a Progress Review Board, have scores in the 3-5 range. Then there are those who had higher scores, and most of the time its painfully obvious that they either gouged themselves up or took the ASTB several times.

I would also like to say, that your ASTB score is really just the first hurdle to getting into aviation in the Navy/Marine Corps. Essentially it is just a Pass/Fail item, if you make the cutoff, you are qualified. (USMC requires slightly higher scores than Navy)

So now that you're in flight school, you can look down on all those "commoners" doing their best to get where you are. There is nothing wrong with studying for the ASTB. Whats the difference between it and any other test that you would study for? You have no facts to back up any of your assumptions. Please stop talking until you can show some sort of hard data. ;)
 

eddie

Working Plan B
Contributor
I understand everyone's desire to do well on that test just like any other test, but gouging yourself up, and taking the test multiple times is just inflating what is designed to be a predictor of how well you will do in flight school. Basically, just because you end up getting high scores such as 8s and 9s after taking it 3 times, that does not mean you will not struggle in API, or on the flight side. I do not have exact data, but most people that end up failing twice in API and end up in a Progress Review Board, have scores in the 3-5 range. Then there are those who had higher scores, and most of the time its painfully obvious that they either gouged themselves up or took the ASTB several times.

I would also like to say, that your ASTB score is really just the first hurdle to getting into aviation in the Navy/Marine Corps. Essentially it is just a Pass/Fail item, if you make the cutoff, you are qualified. (USMC requires slightly higher scores than Navy)

How many times did you take the SAT / ACT?

The simple truth is, what all standardized tests were designed to do, and how they are utilized are COMPLETELY different. The idea that someone should not do as well as they can, by whatever allowed means, is foolish. IN FACT, one can (and many DO) argue that the first time you take a standardized test, it DOES NOT provide an accurate assesment of your abilities and knowledges.
 

EvilGN

Member
pilot
So now that you're in flight school, you can look down on all those "commoners" doing their best to get where you are. There is nothing wrong with studying for the ASTB. Whats the difference between it and any other test that you would study for? You have no facts to back up any of your assumptions. Please stop talking until you can show some sort of hard data. ;)

I am not exactly in flight school....

and to respond to the above post, personally I took the ACT 3 times over the course of 2 years. And did better each time, but not because I gouged myself. The difference from the ACT/SAT and the ASTB is that if you have inflated your predictor by gouge and practice, get a pilot spot, then fail out cause you are a rock, you have done the Navy a disservice and have taken a spot that someone else should have got.

I realize my opinion here is going to be in the minority, but I see every week what happens because of it. (I am an API instructor for those who didn't realize that)
 

Conaway

New Member
Well, this is all good info to learn from.

I got my scores from NAMI and I'm disappointed. I guess because my goal was to make straight 8's and felt I made at least 7's, but I came out with 5/6/5 and an OAR of 47. I'm very disappointed and I don't know if I should take it again. Does this qualify me for USMC pilot, or do I need to take it again? This really gets me down. I need some qualified advice.
 

Kickflip89

Below Ladder
None
Contributor
Ouch

Man, Conway that's too bad, man. I hate it when you think you did well on something just to find out that you didn't.

I have a theory as to why your OAR was a little low, and why your PFAR was higher than the FOFAR / AQR:

The only section I had a problem with was the math section just because some of my math skills suck.

- Academic Qualifications Rating (AQR): This score is affected by performance on all subtests, but the strongest influence is made by the Math Skills Test.
- Pilot Flight Aptitude Rating (PFAR): This score is affected by performance on all subtests, but the greatest contribution is made by the Aviation & Nautical Info and Spatial Apperception Tests.
- Flight Officer Flight Aptitude Rating (FOFAR): This score is affected by performance on all subtests, but the strongest influence is made by the Math Skills Test.
- Officer Aptitude Rating (OAR): This score is affected by performance on the first three subtests, Math Skills, Reading Comprehension, and Mechanical Comprehension.

A LOT of the scores are based on that math score. Now, if your recruiter thinks you are competitive, go ahead and send it in. If he/she thinks you could really improve your package by taking the ASTB again, do it. You seem like a smart guy, I completely believe that you can do better than that.

My advice may not be qualified, but if I were you, I would think really hard about what I had trouble with on the OAR portion of the test, and figure out a way to study those areas. If it was math, get an SAT / ACT prep book and do some of those problems for a few weeks. I think if you pull up your math score, most of the other scores should go up as well.

Just my .02 cents, man.
 

Conaway

New Member
You hit the nail right on the head. I already knew it was going to be a problem, I just didn't think it would hold it down that much. I beefed up on all the aviation stuff I didn't know and I can say with complete assurance that I got all of the spatial appr. questions right and and there was only 1 or 2 flight knowledge questions I wasn't sure of. I guess it goes to show a calculator doesn't help you keep sharp with doing math on paper. I can make A's and B's in integral and differential calculus questions, but some of the simple stuff makes me sweat. Funny huh? Back to practice I guess. Thanks for the advice.
 

Conaway

New Member
No problem. I can tell you what I think helped me, but I cannot tell you what mistakes I made on the test because I still don't know my scores. Gonna do my best based on my standing.

First things first. The ARCO book is for the most part, useless. Believe it or not, it doesn't tell you very much in the way of information. The most I got out of that book was the format of the test, a study test, and a practice test. To tell you the truth, I did horrible when I took that practice test. It is good to learn how the test works and that's honestly about it.

If you want good information, use the Marine Gouge from Columbia that you talked about. That's some good stuff. Now you can use my method as a guide if you want, but remember I still don't know my scores, so what I did might not have been enough.

I printed out the entire Navy Gouge: physics, flight concepts, weather, the whole shabang. I read it all! Even if I didn't remember it, because I know I didn't remember anything but the main concepts (which is all you need for the test) They don't go into as much detail on the actual ASTB as they might lead you to believe. I also used the boating website to learn the boating "right of way", parts of a boat, signs and warning signs, etc. I had a few seamanship questions, the one's I couldn't remember really had to do with the signs. There were also some easy questions, like what part is the bow?

I went through the Marine Gouge twice, the one with the F-18 on it and has all Mech Comprehension questions. That presents foundation concepts for the MCT portion. Also, you will want to use the ASTB Prep-Test. I believe it is also on the columbia site. If not, let me know and I'll see if I can post it here.
It has bunch of things about the Aviation/Nautical portion and it was good for me to learn from. I didn't do so hot when I took it, but I learned from it and corrected my mistakes afterwards.

The most helpful material in my opinion: ASTB Prep-Test, Marine Gouge (mechanical guide), and the columbia website in general.

Now, as I've said at least three times, I don't have my scores yet. However, I don't think it was as a beast of a test as everyone makes it out to be. In my opinion, the study material I used was by far harder than the actual test.

If I had to give advice to study certain topics for each section, it would be:

1) Math/Verbal - algebra, geometry, and reading comprehension.

2) Mechanical - basic physics = simple machines, basics of fluid, liquid, and gas physics, equilibrium, they seem to like pulley questions and pendeulum questions. The fluid physics is focused on flight itself. How a wing produces lift, etc.

3) Spatial Appreception - this is purely being able to visualize in 3D. If you can't do it naturally, you better practice, practice, practice. I am able to visualize very well and so I missed 1/35 of these questions when doing the practice test. I think this section is the easiest way to boost your pilot score. It's quick, it doesn't require analysis, and it makes the test a little less grouling. Just remember to use the coast-line as a reference point, that's my best suggestion.

4) Aviation and Nautical - study the know your boat website from columbia. Learn about major events in aviation and space history and learn some Marine Corps history, i.e. who is John Paul Jones, or who was the first man in space? Also learn, flight concepts, parts of an airplanne and parts of a boat. I had some questions about clouds and a few weather questions. Just know the types of clouds and what altitudes they form at. There was a question or two on engine performance. You can find that material in the Navy Gouge. I think the most important thing to know as far as flight goes here, is understanding Angle-of-Attack, and how adjusting the control surfaces effects what the airplane does. This is purely a knowledge test. You know it, or you don't.

5) Aviation Supplemental - combo of all other sections.

Just remember, focus on core concepts and chill out before the test. Don't work it up in your head. It's all about knowing considerably more information, concepts, and methods than they can possibly ask you. Studying for this test, is for the most part, time consuming, not difficult. I hope this helps (...and I hope I didn't get like a 3/3/3 or something because then that would make me look bad right about now. Haha.). Oh, and don't forget about the Sticky's in the ASTB forum!


...and to expand on this. Don't f^&% the math section! It's pretty important.

After re-reading everything I suggested, it shows that I definately focused on everything BUT math. Oh well, learning from my mistakes now.
 

redmidgrl

livin' the dream
Contributor
I tutor people at my ROTC Unit for the ASTB, and we always go over the math section, so here's what I tell them after we go over how to solve the different types of problems:

- They're out to trick you, just because you get x = something, doesn't mean they were looking for x... make sure you are answering the question.
- KISS - keep it simple, stupid! They aren't asking ridiculously hard calculus problems; it's more a test of logic and strategy. You know how to do the math because it's simple, it's just a matter of realizing the most accurate and quickest way to solve each problem.
- Don't get stuck on a problem because a) you'll waste time, and b) you'll psyche yourself out for the rest of the section. Skip it and go back if you have time.

The Marines here told me that they need 6/6/6 to get a guaranteed flight contract going into TBS, and it might be even more competitive for the Navy side of the house.

If this was your first time taking the test, I would suggest considering taking it again. If you need any more math section advice, let me know :)

Red
 

Conaway

New Member
I tutor people at my ROTC Unit for the ASTB, and we always go over the math section, so here's what I tell them after we go over how to solve the different types of problems:

- They're out to trick you, just because you get x = something, doesn't mean they were looking for x... make sure you are answering the question.
- KISS - keep it simple, stupid! They aren't asking ridiculously hard calculus problems; it's more a test of logic and strategy. You know how to do the math because it's simple, it's just a matter of realizing the most accurate and quickest way to solve each problem.
- Don't get stuck on a problem because a) you'll waste time, and b) you'll psyche yourself out for the rest of the section. Skip it and go back if you have time.

The Marines here told me that they need 6/6/6 to get a guaranteed flight contract going into TBS, and it might be even more competitive for the Navy side of the house.

If this was your first time taking the test, I would suggest considering taking it again. If you need any more math section advice, let me know :)

Red

Good to know. Thanks, and I will.
 

Alucard1750032

Registered User
Hey everyone, I have been going over the gouge and looking over the stickies and the various other websites here. I want to thank everyone for putting all of this here. I take my ASTB tomorrow at 1300 hrs in Irving. Wish me luck and I am going to keep going over the Math cause that seems to be the most important.
 

Alucard1750032

Registered User
Ok I took the ASTB today and made 5/5/5 with a 51 on the OAR. My recruiter said that this was really good with my 3.5 gpa.

Thanks to everyone here.
 

badger16

Well-Known Member
None
so reading the ARCO book it shows that the math and verbal parts of the test are together...then looking at the columbia website and the marine website it says they are split up into 2 different sections. I'm guessing the website is right considering it is straight from the recruiter but I just want to make sure.

Is the math section and verbal/reading section done separate?
 

redmidgrl

livin' the dream
Contributor
Is the math section and verbal/reading section done separate?

Yes, they are separate now. So for the supplemental section you could have another math. I got lucky and my supplemental section was reading, and I saw some of the same questions that I had seen in my Form 3 reading section -- meaning you could see some of the same questions from the previous section of the same type.
 
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