Salute this.

[nittany03]

Reminds me of something that happens to me about once a week on campus. Some of these batty chicks walk around with their head buried in their phone or IPOD, completely oblivious to the world. I purposely let them run into me so I can tell them to watch where the fvck they're going. It's the little things.

Brett

Nicely done . . . here on leave, I've been reintroduced to the classic New York concept of passive-aggressive pedestrians and drivers. They notice you, then purposely refuse to make eye contact as they cut you off in traffic or walk right in front of you in the parking lot. I think they get bonus points for carrying a helpless infant or a load of groceries. I think the SA level in this state is actually negative, and the only thing which keeps people alive is the vacuum effect sucking SA in from neighboring states.

 

[FrankTheTank]

floridaseabee: O-1s/O-2s don't counts as JOs-- they are more like half a JO; just like a MIDN is a real officer (ya right).. Also big difference between O-5 as CO and O-5 as Wing Safety Officer.. Rank vs position factors in for consideration of "PAR" status..

 

[Cordespc]

I have watched this thread in total amazement. The answer to the original post is to snatch 'em up and square them away on the spot. What are they gonna do, beat you up? They will either never do it again or avoid you at all costs. Who cares if they think your an ass.

I think the manner of correction should be determined by the circumstances involved. For instance, Airman Recruit Johnny at NASP went to bootcamp 3 months ago, and his violation of protocol is likely linked to inexperience, lack of training, and maybe even a little laziness. I think all of these conditions can be corrected in a friendly maner (though I sometimes find it challenging to do so) with out leaving Johnny feeling like he just got his ass chewed for not giving some dickhead officer his 'props.'

One time, back at sunny Quantico, CPL Johnny blatently snubbed me, so, using a variation of some advice given herein, I inquired in a light manner "Hey Cpl, It's been a few months since I was enlisted.....do O-1s still rate a hand salute?" To which he replied "Maybe, sir." while giving a lazy flick of the brim of his cover, almost as if to say "eat sh!t." This circumstance was different because the cause of the occurance was solely disrespect. The Cpl definitely had the training, so he needed calibrating instead. I'll assume he had been in for a few years, and may have done a combat deployment. He may have used this as justification for disrespecting a bunch of boot O-1s. Whatever the cause, he got the ass chewing deluxe, and I got the names of his OIC and SNCOIC. I checked them out to make sure he hadn't lied to me, and left it at that.

I'm sure Cpl Johnny thought I was an ass, but I didn't care. If I had given Airman Recruit Johnny the same treatment, he would think I was an ass too, and I would probably feel like an ass. I really don't want to ruin a young kid's opinion of the commissioned ranks for one lapse in judgement. I've only been wearing the chrome a little while, so I'm still feeling things out to an extent.

Paul

 

[scoober78]

I'd say other than this ridiculous phrase...

I've only been wearing the chrome a little while

your doing fine...

 

[floridaseabee]

floridaseabee: O-1s/O-2s don't counts as JOs-- they are more like half a JO; just like a MIDN is a real officer (ya right).. Also big difference between O-5 as CO and O-5 as Wing Safety Officer.. Rank vs position factors in for consideration of "PAR" status..

Good point. Thanks for the insight.

Half of a JO ....well, I'm almost to the halfway point, still in 'sponge' mode.

 

[Goober]

I'm sure Cpl Johnny thought I was an ass, but I didn't care. If I had given Airman Recruit Johnny the same treatment, he would think I was an ass too, and I would probably feel like an ass. I really don't want to ruin a young kid's opinion of the commissioned ranks for one lapse in judgement. I've only been wearing the chrome a little while, so I'm still feeling things out to an extent.

Well, don't forget that while we're expected to help train up these younger, lower-ranking folks, we're ultimately responsible for them too. If you don't train people in how you expect a job done, you'll get whatever they give you. Sure, we have a need to be approachable and garner "genuine" respect (not fear) so that those under our command come to us when they need our help to get a job done, have personal issues, etc.; that said, we're not here to be their "big toe" [Stripes ref for the unwashed]. Best buddies hang out and drink beer and watch the game w/ each other; they don't, however, generally include the potential that they'll be giving orders that might cause the other's untimely demise. A bit extreme? Depends on your environment. We train our subs to follow orders and keep in mind that they are responsible for carrying them out. In the meantime, a modicum of public respect for someone from whom you're responsible for taking orders isn't a huge effort; nor should it be marginalized. Goob's take on the matter anyway.

 

[phrogdriver]

A Staff Sergeant once mused aloud to me,"Ya know, a lot of guys bitch about how the Corps is going to sh!t, and how it was so much better in the old Corps. I tell them,'So what are you doing to fix it, motherf#cker!'" If you see something is jacked up, fix it!

A salute isn't only about rank--it's also about courtesy and tradition. People join the military to be a part of something bigger than themselves and to be a part of that tradition. In the short-run, maintaining discipline (e.g. saluting, uniforms, appropriate civilian attire) seems like a lot of BS. Over time, though, these things add up, and are the difference between a good unit or base with a lot of pride, or a bag of nastiness.

BTW--is it really that unusual in the Navy for JGs and ENSs to salute LTs? The 1-bar club is one thing--the difference between 0 and 4 years of service isn't that big a deal. An O-3 of any service may have 10 years commissioned service and a butt-ton of deployed time. A JO had better salute him.

 

[MasterBates]

BTW--is it really that unusual in the Navy for JGs and ENSs to salute LTs? The 1-bar club is one thing--the difference between 0 and 4 years of service isn't that big a deal. An O-3 of any service may have 10 years commissioned service and a butt-ton of deployed time. A JO had better salute him.

Phrogdriver,

In my community, JO's are ENS-LTJG-LT. Generally no saluting amoung fleet pilots. With the exception of 1 or 2 WTI's per squadron, all LT's are 1st tour guys.

Never seen a JG salute a LT here at the wing. SWO's do over on their half of the base.

Not saying it is right or wrong, just how it is here.

 

[Brett327]

BTW--is it really that unusual in the Navy for JGs and ENSs to salute LTs?

Not only is it unusual, it's unheard of. It's a different service with different traditions. That's just the way it is.

Brett

 

[A4sForever]

^ I agree .... within the squadron ... without the squadron ... I don't.

Unless the Navy has changed ... ???

 

[Brett327]

^ I agree .... within the squadron ... without the squadron ... I don't.

Unless the Navy has changed ... ???

The Navy must have changed. That particular rule now applies to O-4s that aren't in your command, or that you don't know personally.

Brett

 

[Cordespc]

I'd say other than this ridiculous phrase...

your doing fine...

Yes, I can see how that might sound a bit ridiculous....I should have used bling-bling instead. I guess its just a throw-back to my 9th grade creative writing class where I learned how to use contractions.

 

[Dunedan]

Here's one I've scratched my head over a little:

If an O is in civvies and is saluted (as when going through the front gate), should the salute be returned, or simply acknowledged verbally?

I guess the better question might be: where does one go to look up this kind of stuff?

 

[scoober78]

Yes, I can see how that might sound a bit ridiculous....I should have used bling-bling instead. I guess its just a throw-back to my 9th grade creative writing class where I learned how to use contractions.

Ouch...

 

[nittany03]

Here's one I've scratched my head over a little:

If an O is in civvies and is saluted (as when going through the front gate), should the salute be returned, or simply acknowledged verbally?

I guess the better question might be: where does one go to look up this kind of stuff?

I think it's usually bad form to render a salute when you aren't in some kind of uniform. Just looks ridiculous. When going through the gate in civvies I just make sure I don't look nasty (proper civvies, shave, etc.) and give them a verbal acknowledgment or a touch of the hat brim if I'm wearing one.