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War in Israel

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IRfly

Registered User
None
If you meant "discern" and "perceive" interchangeably, and my change did not change the meaning, then wtf was your meaning? You are stating definitively that the majority of Americans perception is wrong because they believed the "Big Lie" as you claim, and yours is right. Ie, that everyone else's perception is wrong and yours is right.

His actual level of mental acuity is unknowable. Perception is reality. Those polls matter. Your guess is no better than others, so please come off your high horse.

So... Israel, amiright?
My mistake. I thought we were having a good-faith discussion of the actual mental acuity of the president, not what uninformed people believe to be his mental acuity. You appear to be upset because you have bought into the aggressively pushed narrative of Biden's senility and you don't like me calling it a Big Lie. Pretty sad.

And btw, perception is not reality--that's BS Pentagon-speak that weasels use when they make a mistake and don't want to own up to it. Aviators of all people should know that *reality* is reality.

break

Please enjoy this Der Spiegel interview with noted anti-Semite and peacenik Ehud Barak.

I'll add some commentary...I think sometimes we in the U.S. sometimes tend to view politics as a game where sometimes one side wins, sometimes the other, but in the long run it's all pretty much the same. To some extent that might be true...but sometimes nations choose a path or choose leaders who choose a path) and that path leads to definitive consequences that are very much foreseeable. Among the points that Barak makes are that "The defense minister, the chief of staff, intelligence chiefs and former heads of the armed forces repeatedly warned that his plans weakened and risked the security of Israel. He went ahead with them anyway."
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
And btw, perception is not reality--that's BS Pentagon-speak that weasels use when they make a mistake and don't want to own up to it. Aviators of all people should know that *reality* is reality.
Unfortunately, for all purposes short of physics and engineering, reality stops being reality when enough people stop buying into it, at which point perception DOES become reality, at least until reality decides to reassert itself in sufficiently inconvenient fashion to overcome the human mind's enormous capability for rationalization and motivated thinking.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
I was referring to the “colonizer” framework that's popular in academia circles. That overly simplistic IMO intellectual framework is used by younger folks without context as a crutch to critique the very existence of the Israeli state. I very much agree with Biden’s statement on this (can’t find the exact transcript at the moment), to the effect of the Israeli state’s existence is vitally important to the Jewish diaspora worldwide.

I can also hold that thought together with the fact that I've found Benjamin Netanyahu's hardline leadership and stance to be odious and counterproductive, and that the human rights of Palestinians shouldn't be run roughshod over and have a repeat of Aleppo/Grozny.
A fairly good read with respect to the reflexive “colonizer” narrative:

 

Mirage

Well-Known Member
pilot
My mistake. I thought we were having a good-faith discussion of the actual mental acuity of the president, not what uninformed people believe to be his mental acuity. You appear to be upset because you have bought into the aggressively pushed narrative of Biden's senility and you don't like me calling it a Big Lie. Pretty sad.
Such arrogance. "I am right, and if you disagree then you must be uninformed!" Disgusting to read.

And btw, perception is not reality--that's BS Pentagon-speak that weasels use when they make a mistake and don't want to own up to it. Aviators of all people should know that *reality* is reality.
This isn't aviation we are talking about pal. It's politics. Perception determines how people vote. Votes determine who wins. That is reality.
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
Such arrogance. "I am right, and if you disagree then you must be uninformed!" Disgusting to read.


This isn't aviation we are talking about pal. It's politics. Perception determines how people vote. Votes determine who wins. That is reality.
My friend, I take a back seat to no one in arrogance. Might as well be my middle name, based on your perception of me. But you see, even if you and Random and all your other book club (or anti-book club, as the case may be) buddies all get together and, based on your shared perception, decide that my middle name must be Arrogant, there's still a document that says otherwise. That would be reality.

At this point you're probably trolling me, but I'll take one more shot at this...
Let's say mental acuity exists on a scale of 1-100, with 100 being brilliantly sharp and 1 being a vegetable. Maybe Senator Biden was somewhere around 90, VP Biden started to slip into the 80s, and now elderly President Biden is somewhere in the 70s. The important thing is, other than picking up clues/signals from the few public appearances he makes, neither you nor I nor 99.9% of Americans have a dependable, rigorous way of knowing whereabouts he falls on that scale.

On the other hand, it was a clear strategy of the Trump 2020 campaign to convince voters that Pres Biden's mental acuity is, say, in the 20s on our scale. They also don't have any reliable information to determine this--but it is useful for the (continuing) Trump campaign and the wider Republican party (are they really different entities at this point?) for voters to believe that Pres Biden's mental acuity is in the 20s and that he is therefore unfit to be president. In the absence of reliable evidence of where Pres Biden's mental acuity actually is on our scale (i.e. "reality"), Trump, other Republican politicians, and right-wing media (Fox News, OAN, all the talk radio, etc) relentlessly repeat the narrative that Biden is in the 20s and falling. This is not an accident--this is a strategy. This is the "Big Lie" strategy--repeat something often enough and people will eventually believe that it is at least partially true. It is reinforced by repeatedly and disproportionally discussing and replaying recordings of his gaffes/slips/falls. And it works. That's why you consistently can see polls where people both very much approve of what Biden has done in this term, but think he shouldn't have a second term.

So again, the results those polls asking yahoos on the street about Biden's mental acuity are a testament to the effectiveness of this strategy, but are not necessarily connected to his actual acuity. I thought we were discussing his mental acuity, not the effectiveness of Trump's latest campaign efforts.

One last disclaimer: A stopped clock is right twice a day. It's absolutely possible that the professional liars are right and that Biden is indeed senile. As you pointed out, I can't really diagnose that. Maybe someone else is pulling the strings, right? It's possible, sure... So there, even in my arrogance, I'll acknowledge that this overwhelming narrative completely unsupported by fact may be correct.
 

Random8145

Registered User
My friend, I take a back seat to no one in arrogance. Might as well be my middle name, based on your perception of me. But you see, even if you and Random and all your other book club (or anti-book club, as the case may be) buddies all get together and, based on your shared perception, decide that my middle name must be Arrogant,
Hey man, don't pull me into this and I never said you were arrogant.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Any thoughts on how serious this is?

Erdogan the politician May rant and rave, but the people of Turkey are more European/Muslim than Middle East/Muslim. They aren’t going to risk their close ties with NATO for the sake of anger at Israel. Indeed, that is the real ground truth of this war, there is no pan-Muslim alliance that is going to fight Israel. The Egyptians, Jordanians, and Saudi’s aren’t going to strike Israel in any way that would imperil their western relationships.
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
You’re probably right that they won’t form a military alliance to fight Israel, but there are other ways of making their displeasure felt. Oil is the old standby, but Saudi (and broader Arab and Muslim) soft power has also dramatically increased since the 1970’s.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
Any thoughts on how serious this is?


Why am I not surprised? Erdogan seems to enjoy taking the most assholish stance on everything.

This is true to brand.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Can a mod please thread split this bitch? Maybe title it "Biden's mental acuity and Random's pedantic musings".
If I could be pedantic for a moment... is Random even qualified to be pedantic? I'm thinking more like "Random's Supernova of Stupidity." Has a nice ring to it.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Cool, cool...One of the richest guys in the world, whose company does business with the DoD, posts mis/disinformation like this on his social media platform all the time. He apparently has disrupted UKR ops in the past by restricting their access to Starlink bc of his personal views on the war. Not sure why we allow this one individual to have so much influence on such things.

Glad the Admiral called him out though.

 
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