Your Path to the Flightline

[guest0321]

I've noticed plenty of threads here started by high school and college students hoping to make it big in Marine Aviation, so I hope you won't pass this over.

I've been lurking around on this site for the better part of 18 months now trying to get a handle on the best way to make my move to the "Dark Side" and continue serving as an officer. Did you have a degree prior to enlisting? Did you earn one while enlisted? MECEP/BOOST?

I'm interested in how you prior enlisted Marines on the boards here made your transition to the aviation side of the house from the bottom floor. I'm very interested in any problems you experienced during your move, and any advice you may have for me and others looking to do the same thing.

I haven't filled out my profile, but I am a 22 year old Reconnaissance Marine (0321), serving in a Recon Battalion. I have a 300 PFT, 20/15 vision, 97 ASVAB, 130+ GT score, and a 32 on my most recent ACT test. We all know fitness/GT scores/etc always seem to play a role in selection for anything in the Marines, and I am interested in whether or not they made a difference for you.

What were your prior MOS's? How many deployments did you have prior to going officer? Was it your intent to only go flight, or did you just want to serve as an officer in general? Was your chain of command behind you?

Thanks for your time, I appreciate all the advice I can get.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I was a 20 yr old Cpl in the Reserves (did a crap ton of ADSW, 'cause I hated school and work).
MOS 6047 - Aviation Maintenance Data Analysis Technician in an F/A-18 squadron.
One semester (that USNA knows about) at Delaware State University, two (that they don't know about) at Anne Arundel Community College where I failed out.
Made Dean's list at DelSate, which was enough to get me into USNA.
4 years at USNA, commissioned, and became a pilot after that.
I wanted to be a Marine first (my selection card from USNA was: 1. Marine Pilot, 2. Marine Ground, 3. Marine NFO, 4. Navy Pilot, 5. Navy NFO, 6. SWO) then pilot.
That's it in a nutshell - outside of AT's I never deployed while enlisted.
My chain of command was VERY supportive (even if the career retention specialist was not)

For what it's worth, my RTO in the battalion is now at the University of Arizona after attending BOOST. He's hoping to be a Cobra pilot.

 

[e47242]

I haven't gotten commissioned yet but I have completed OCS "C" Co. Class 198 2nd Platoon. I'm a Reservist Sergeant with almost six years in. I'm a 7242 Air Support Operations Operator. I also was a Provisional Rifleman and served as a 0311 in a Provisional Security Company. I've been on two deployments, Iraq and Djibouti, Africa. I went the PLC route because there were more air contract spots that way. When I do get to the dark side I will keep you updated. I think I had like a 275 PFT for my package when it was sent up. I also am 28 and had to get an age waiver. If I could get an air contract you should definitely be able too. It sounds like you have everything that it takes to be qualified. You should start talking to an OSO and see what your options are. All the ASVAB, ACT, GT score stuff is important but the ASTB is what you should be worried about. I studied a couple of weeks to get ready for that test. I'm not the smartest person either though. Look up the gouge on this site to see what you need to prepare for that. Coming from the enlisted side I think is what all officers should be required to do. As an NCO and a Recon Marine you will have no problem at OCS, it was tough physically for me but I'm not a 300 PFTer either. Mentally it is cake mostly you thinking to your self oh wow this again. I am sure you chances are even higher for getting an air contract due to the Corps growing itself too.

I hope this helps and if you have any more questions hit me up.
Good Luck and Godspeed!

 

[Crowbar]

Coming from the enlisted side I think is what all officers should be required to do. As an NCO and a Recon Marine you will have no problem at OCS,

I'll answer the original question but wanted to address this first. I don't have any problem with officers with no enlisted experience. I've seen super stars and turds from both categories. If you allowed only enlisted Marine to become officers you would eliminate a whole lot of people without good reason. Also, I saw several people who you would think were "highly unlikely" to do it quit or get booted during OCS. Some just decided it wasn't for them. Some couldn't keep up during any of the physical events, and one guy got caught stealing other people's shit. He was a Sergeant when he went to OCS, I don't know what he is now.

Anyway, I was an avionics tech. I had two Med crusies and two FAPs before I went to MECEP. I was never a 300 PFTer, not even a 285 guy. When I first got in, I had no intention of ever going to flight school. I think comm, combat engineer, and artillery were what I had my eye on back then. During college when I started to figure out what ECMOs do it sounded like my kind of thing.
I was a SSgt in the fleet for a while before going to college so I got to be part of the good old boy network. I don't think I've had any "problems" with changing over. It's different here. Not better, not worse, just different. It's hard to describe until you see it first hand. My chain of command was very supportive. My friends were supportive.

As far as advice, this is what I always tell people. If you get into MECEP, you're typically doing pretty good in the fleet. You know your job, know what's coming, and when you leave work you don't think about it again until you drive through the gate the next morning. Once you get commissioned that all changes. During TBS you'll have something to do almost every night. Don't think your prior enlisted experience will change that. You'll still have orders to write, books to read, and events to prepare and pack for. If you go to flight school it extends indefinitely. Even once you get to the fleet you still have to study and review NATOPS and tactics and be good at your ground job. I'm not saying that you'll be at home studying every night but you will find yourself doing that during work, and yes, maybe from time to time you might geek out and peruse NATOPS while watching a movie. It's not a bad thing, that stuff can become important if you ever need it and when you think about what you're responsible for it's a small price to pay.

In summary, MECEP, good opportunity. Expect to start all over and every time you start a new phase (TBS, API, primary, advanced, RAG, fleet) there's the proverbial steep learning curve that you have to face. Some hard work involved but well worth it.

 

[RyanVR]

My path:

2003, put in package for OCS, air contract with roughly 250 ish pft, good vision, 34 ACT, and of course dashing good looks.

2004 PLC 186 10 week course

2005 commissioned 01 JUN 05

nov 2005 TBS class 01-06 Alpha company (nov-june)

ifs august-sept 2006
API in pensacola fl nov-13 dec 2006

primary corpus christi feb 2007-aug 2007 vt-28

advanced ht-18 oct 2007-jun 2008

frs hmla/t-303 jun 2008-nov 2008

THE FLEET HMLA-169 nov 2008

the reason i typed out all that bullshit is to impress upon you the fact that its not easy and its not quick. You will be in for more studying (massive amounts of rote memorization tied in with even more conceptual and procedural knowledge) than you've done in your life.

Just remember, while your natural abilities and your intellegence (and your flight physical of course) do play a significant factor, the most important thing you need is determination and the will to eat pain and suffering for years to earn something that only close to 30,000 people in the history of naval avaition have recieved (sorry nfo's i didn't count you). The wings of gold.

Boot Lt Von Rembow
HMLA-169 "On Time, On Target"

 

[MasterBates]

There's been a good bit more than 30,000. You are probably counting your "unrestricted" Naval Aviator number (mine's 26873), which came into effect after WWII, which by all accounts had a metric-ass-ton of Naval Aviators and NAPs.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Coming from the enlisted side I think is what all officers should be required to do.

I think Crowbar addressed this well, but once you pin your bars, you will get a lot of crap for talking this way. I don't disagree that all officers should have an appreciation for Enlisted folks, but I fully disagree with the idea that we all should have been priors. In my short time as an O I have already seen several priors f**k it away on pretty basic stuff, so to mirror what has been said, it can swing both ways.

 

[phrogpilot73]

To add to the dogpile - the single best officer I have ever had the opportunity to serve with was non prior-enlisted. One of the worst I've ever served with was prior-enlisted.

 

[guest0321]

I can appreciate the pain that goes with a long training pipeline. My experience hasn't exposed me to the amounts of studying required for flight training, but I'd like to think I'm ready for it. I don't see myself pursuing this path for at least a couple more years...there's still some work to do in Afghanistan, and I'd like to get pop off a few rounds.

I appreciate all of your input. I've received more relevant information from this site than most places in the Marine Corps and around my unit regarding a transition such as the one I'm considering.

Thanks

 

[gaijin6423]

To throw my hat into the ring:

I was an active duty Cpl (MOS 6423) when I applied for USNA in 1998. I did not have any college credits aside from one AP class I took in high school, and while my SAT scores were considered okay by most schools, they were not on par with what USNA typically looks for. Consequently, I was not accepted outright, but was offered NAPS. I concurrently applied for MECEP, but the message came out after I had already accepted the academy pipeline. I graduated from USNA with an air contract, went to TBS, then Pensacola. As for flight school... Well, let's leave it at that things didn't quite go so well. I attrited out of advanced, and received 7208 (Air Support Control Officer) as my new MOS.

As for my fellow DASC Marine who made the comment about prior-enlisted officers, let me agree with what everyone else has said. Experience, while it can be a huge advantage, can only carry you so far. I will argue that an entirely prior-enlisted officer corps would be a very bad thing for the Marine Corps, as I think we would be far too inclined to remain set in our ways and be too resistant to change. Granted, the newest way isn't always the best, and there is something important to be said for tempering ideas, techniques and equipment with a bit of salt. But, new perspectives on leadership, warfighting, etc are crucial to not only successfully accomplishing tasks, but also to the survival of the Marine Corps in general.

 

[sickboy]

Not quite the same thing, but I was a HM3 (NEC-8404) back in 2006. I applied for an NROTC scholarship and with the help of my Plt, and Company commanders (Not to mention the HMC and my PltSgt.) I secured a scholarship. I was a little younger, but it worked out well for me. If you can, talk to your officers about the different commissioning programs, they should be able to give you some details. I know a lot of younger Marines who go the NROTC route. My two cents...sorry, I don't know too much about MECEP.

 

[guest0321]

Another question for anyone who went MECEP or anyone who just has the answer...

Can a Marine take advantage of study abroad programs while in the MECEP program? Some of the schools I've looked at have great study abroad opportunities ranging in length from about a month to a full year. I'm wondering if I would be able to do a semester overseas.

Thanks

 

[usmarinemike]

Another question for anyone who went MECEP or anyone who just has the answer...

Can a Marine take advantage of study abroad programs while in the MECEP program? Some of the schools I've looked at have great study abroad opportunities ranging in length from about a month to a full year. I'm wondering if I would be able to do a semester overseas.

Thanks

In general, yes you can. You must make sure that it doesn't interfere with going to OCS, you have to graduate within 4 years, and your NROTC has to be on board with it. There are such big differences in how tightly buttoned down NROTC units are in how permissive and restrictive they get about that kind of thing. I'd say chances are very good for you though, unless something has been written into the MECEP order about studying abroad since I've been through it which has been pretty recent.

If I had to SWAG it, I'd say that you're a shoe in for MECEP on the first try. Just make sure to ask yourself if you would still be satisfied with your choice if you can't fly. Being an officer is so much more than you can even fathom as an enlisted guy.

Agreed that an all prior officer corps would be bad. e47242, you'll see what I mean when you get to TBS. You could be a complete stud mentally, physically, and as a leader and you'll still have your ass handed to you by some guys who have in been in the Corps for only a few weeks. And that's only one tiny aspect of it. FTR, I'm a prior AD 7242. All that other bio business is in my profile.

 

[Ecureuil444]

Another question for anyone who went MECEP or anyone who just has the answer...

Can a Marine take advantage of study abroad programs while in the MECEP program? Some of the schools I've looked at have great study abroad opportunities ranging in length from about a month to a full year. I'm wondering if I would be able to do a semester overseas.

Thanks

I'm sure it depends on the unit and OCS dates, but we've got a MECEP going abroad for the whole spring 09 semester, so definitely doable.

 

[e47242]

Easy fellas I get it that you don't agree with my comment that all officers should be prior enlisted. Thank you for making me rethink my approach. I do understand that there could be $&#@ bags that come from the enlisted side. I had a candidate in my platoon at OCS who was a prior and got dropped for being an integrity violator.

Now has guest0321 thought about getting out and what his options would be that way? I'm just throwing that out there. I know a few guys who have done that. I don't know how much longer you have on your contract.