Women fliers honored 65 years after World War II service

[A4sForever]

.... the usual ...

You always strive to find a new personal low, don't you ???

Here's what you don't understand, Junior: I don't want women in combat 'cause I have too much respect for them. I suppose that doesn't show on your radar screen. I don't 'want' men there, either, but that's evidently something you're clueless about ... or better yet ... why DON'T YOU tell me all about it.

It really amuses me how you 'dog' my posts on the Air Warriors forum in an attempt to find SOMETHING to 'hit on' ... you just can't stand it if you can't pick a fight w/ me, can you ... ???

Pathetic. You are a miserable, sorry, sorry, pathetic individual. I'm also sorry you're so 'jealous' ... and sorry you don't measure up to what you want to be ... but it really doesn't change anything in life and it doesn't determine whether or not the sun will rise again tomorrow.

-1 for your consistent, persistent obnoxiousness ... but not the same for the 'young gaijin man', as he doesn't know any better.

If you want to discuss your personal problems and poor self-image further -- take it to a PM. I'm listening ...

 

[Flash]

The shame on the U.S. government in all this is that their service records were classified, sealed & unavailable to anyone for 50 years. They got no GI-Bill, no Veteran Preference, nothing! This isn't Josef Stalin's Russia (Hell, he gave his female fighter pilots medals!). Our government hid all evidence of their service for half a century. WTF!?

Yeah, the same bothered me. I have no idea what they meant by the records being 'sealed' for 30 years but their contributions at the time and again in the 70's were recognized and acknowledged by many. Good on them for getting the Congressional Gold Medal but I think that it is a disservice to history to claim that these women are 'finally' getting recognized when they have been for a long time.

 

[Seafort]

I'm willing to give A4sForever the benefit of the doubt, that he did not mean anything personally, and accept that my choice of words could have been better, instead of playing a part in escalating the situation.

 

[A4sForever]

I'm willing to give A4sForever the benefit of the doubt, that he did not mean anything personally, and accept that my choice of words could have been better, instead of playing a part in escalating the situation.

+1 ... ditto ... not that anyone cares what I think, but ditto, anyway.

Best

 

[JIMC5499]

I always wondered about the two woman pilots who shot down the Dornier flying boats in 1943. From what I've heard they were ferrying two P-38's from Greenland and caught a pair of Dorniers out looking for convoys. They shot down both of them and finished their flight. Both kills were witnessed by ships from the convoy that the Dorniers were reporting on. I have never found any of this in any of the books that I have read. This was told to me by a woman, who if she was still alive, would have been one of the people honored at this ceremony. I have seen photo albums and scrapbooks that she had. She was also one of the original members of the 99's.

 

[Flash]

I always wondered about the two woman pilots who shot down the Dornier flying boats in 1943. From what I've heard they were ferrying two P-38's from Greenland and caught a pair of Dorniers out looking for convoys. They shot down both of them and finished their flight. Both kills were witnessed by ships from the convoy that the Dorniers were reporting on. I have never found any of this in any of the books that I have read. This was told to me by a woman, who if she was still alive, would have been one of the people honored at this ceremony. I have seen photo albums and scrapbooks that she had. She was also one of the original members of the 99's.

Never heard of such an incident and after some checking couldn't find anything on it. Can't say it didn't happen but I doubt it, I think that would have been very well publicized by now.

 

[BACONATOR]

You always strive to find a new personal low, don't you ???

Here's what you don't understand, Junior: I don't want women in combat 'cause I have too much respect for them. I suppose that doesn't show on your radar screen. I don't 'want' men there, either, but that's evidently something you're clueless about ... or better yet ... why DON'T YOU tell me all about it.

It really amuses me how you 'dog' my posts on the Air Warriors forum in an attempt to find SOMETHING to 'hit on' ... you just can't stand it if you can't pick a fight w/ me, can you ... ???

Pathetic. You are a miserable, sorry, sorry, pathetic individual. I'm also sorry you're so 'jealous' ... and sorry you don't measure up to what you want to be ... but it really doesn't change anything in life and it doesn't determine whether or not the sun will rise again tomorrow.

-1 for your consistent, persistent obnoxiousness ... but not the same for the 'young gaijin man', as he doesn't know any better.

If you want to discuss your personal problems and poor self-image further -- take it to a PM. I'm listening ...

I think his point is that the old-school mentality of putting women on pedestals and treating them like dainty glass trinkets which need to be protected because you "respect" them.... that in and of itself is discriminatory (I'm not that dramatic, but that's the idea). Putting women on some sort of pedestal and keeping them out of the military because you respect them so much is basically saying that women are helpless and in effect is just as offensive, regardless of the intent.

 

[sfrankie08]

My comment was just an aside -- a qualifier ... an intro ... not an invitation to battle. I do not subscribe to the thinking that men & women are 'equal' in what it takes to prevail in combat.

If you didn't want to open it up, you could have left your first sentence out and just say that they were bad asses for doing what they did.
I can understand the fact that you "respect" women too much to send them into combat.. but I (as a female) find it disrespectful to think that. (I am a bit biased as a female in the military though). I think it comes from growing up in a different time though. Two opinions..no one is right/wrong I'll just agree to disagree..

On a separate note, if the 1980's hockey team got a medal..then why not give it to them. But I would tend to agree with the latter half of navair's argument. I don't think they should get vet status.

 

[Fog]

I think his point is that the old-school mentality of putting women on pedestals and treating them like dainty glass trinkets which need to be protected because you "respect" them.... that in and of itself is discriminatory . . . Putting women on some sort of pedestal and keeping them out of the military because you respect them so much is basically saying that women are helpless and in effect is just as offensive, regardless of the intent.[/QUOTE]

OW8's point of view is well-taken and valid. At the same time, the world today is not WWI where downed aviators shared cigars & wine with their captors. What jihadists do to any American, especially military, is disgusting & well-documented. We haven't lost a femal aviator yet to them, but God help us all when & if we do. I'm not really taking sides here, because females have shown they can fly as well as any man - then and today.

 

[Catmando]

So the standard for a Congressional Gold Medal is flying a bunch of ferry flights and target towing? I'm not disparaging the pioneer aspect of it all, but come on. Seems like some pandering is going on here. I think there are probably a lot of unrecognized combat pilots of the era.

The shame on the U.S. government in all this is that their service records were classified, sealed & unavailable to anyone for 50 years. They got no GI-Bill, no Veteran Preference, nothing! This isn't Josef Stalin's Russia (Hell, he gave his female fighter pilots medals!). Our government hid all evidence of their service for half a century. WTF!?

It is amazing to me how many WWII Russian women flew in combat (out of necessity with early losses). Not only did they have quite a number of aces, but they had one squadron entirely made up of women - pilots, maintenance, all.

That our women pilots - even though they did not fly in combat - received no benefits or recognition following their service is a travesty.

Linky

 

[phrogdriver]

Veteran's status? Probably a yes on that question.

Congressional Gold Medal? They showed up for work and did their parts for the war effort, just like millions of others during that war. All the others just got 3 hots and a cot. While you've seen a few awarded to groups for political reasons, e.g. this one, the Navajo Code Talkers, the Tuskegee Airmen, I think it should go to noteworthy individual achievement, such as those given to Ronald Reagan, Pope John Paul, MLK Jr, etc. If a group got shortchanged back in the day, then go back and write them up for a Presidential Unit Citation or scour the records for personal awards that should have been awarded at the time.

What I would be for is for a mass gathering of them all receiving WWII Victory Medals or an Air Force Unit Citation.

 

[Swanee]

I'm conflicted about the whole article and/or issue.

On the one hand, these women were pioneers. They were the first women to fly US military aircraft, the first female military flight instructors, etc. Good on them. But that's about all I can say. Maybe that's worthy of a congressional gold medal. I guess if the 1980 hockey team gets one, they can have one too. It doesn't mean all that much to me.

At the same time I don't buy the "they were an indispensable part of the war effort" argument. Did they free up male pilots to head into combat? Maybe. The army air corps produced something on the order of 190,000 new pilots during the war. So, somehow, just over a half percent of the pilots, who served in the air force were "indispensable"? What about the civilian men who performed the same function but couldn't fly in combat because they were too old or disqualified for some other reason? The way I see it, these ladies were civilian contractors, no more, no less. Sorry ladies, you took a fairly dangerous job for your day, got paid crap wages, and managed to serve your country in the process but you weren't in the military. What they got in return was a sense of accomplishment and the chance to fly some of the coolest aircraft in American history but I don't think that earns them "veteran" status.

Whoa Whoa Whee Whoa! I know you did not just dis the Miracle on Ice! It was only the greatest hockey game ever played! Though who cares about the Congressional Gold Medal, those guys won an Olympic Gold Medal (after they beat the Finns of course).

 

[Seafort]

Veteran's status? Probably a yes on that question.

Congressional Gold Medal? They showed up for work and did their parts for the war effort, just like millions of others during that war. All the others just got 3 hots and a cot. While you've seen a few awarded to groups for political reasons, e.g. this one, the Navajo Code Talkers, the Tuskegee Airmen, I think it should go to noteworthy individual achievement, such as those given to Ronald Reagan, Pope John Paul, MLK Jr, etc. If a group got shortchanged back in the day, then go back and write them up for a Presidential Unit Citation or scour the records for personal awards that should have been awarded at the time.

What I would be for is for a mass gathering of them all receiving WWII Victory Medals or an Air Force Unit Citation.

+1

I rarely do the "+1" thing because I usually like to explain why I agree, but this is pretty straight forward. I concur that unit citations and veteran status would have been more appropriate, if significantly less sensationalist, than the Congressional Gold Medal.

Also +1 for the "all she wanted was a flag on her coffin says it all" comment. That is far more meaningful than anything a bunch of politicans can hand out.