Why the gun IS civilization

[Lawman]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/meth.htm

Here you go Flash. From BJS, a study on comparability of Index crime rates between England and the United States.

Before anyone reads this, dont just skim through and look at the charts make sure you read the section on compatability conflicts based on the methodology differnces in reporting in both countries.

Ill see what else I can dig up from my old essays after I get back from the bank and gym.

 

[Flash]

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/html/cjusew96/meth.htm

Here you go Flash. From BJS, a study on comparability of Index crime rates between England and the United States.

Before anyone reads this, dont just skim through and look at the charts make sure you read the section on compatability conflicts based on the methodology differnces in reporting in both countries.

Ill see what else I can dig up from my old essays after I get back from the bank and gym.

The data is at least twelve years old and does not compare the murder rates (unless I missed it). Mine is more recent and I did. And to contradict your earlier statement:

"However, legal definitions of burglary, robbery, motor vehicle theft (including unauthorized taking of motor vehicles), and murder (murder and nonnegligent manslaughter in the United States; murder, manslaughter and infanticide in England) seem quite comparable in both countries."

Also:

"While crime definitions were reasonably comparable between England and the United States, characteristics of the crimes differed between the two countries. For example, according to 1996 police statistics, firearms were used in 7% of English murders (Home Office, 1997, table 3.2) but 68% of U.S. murders (FBI, 1997, table 2.9). Likewise, according to 1996 police statistics on robbery, 41% of U.S. robberies (FBI, 1997, page 29) but 5% of English robberies (Home Office, 1997, table A4.5, page 65) involved a firearm. Furthermore, according to latest victim survey statistics (1995 in England; 1996 in the United States), 28% of U.S. robberies involved a firearm compared to 4% of English robberies."

What was that about only criminals having guns if guns were outlawed? Seems like the criminals in the UK had hardly any back then.......

 

[Brett327]

Why do you guys put yourselves through this pointless exercise? Flash will ever remain the bastion of deluded liberal milquetoast and the gun crowd will remain just as rabid as ever. Don't like guns, then don't use them, but respect the fundamental right of Americans to do so. Interjecting arguments about crime and statistics on either side doesn't accomplish anything and doesn't persuade anyone.

Brett

 

[Lawman]

The data is at least twelve years old and does not compare the murder rates (unless I missed it). Mine is more recent and I did. And to contradict your earlier statement:

"However, legal definitions of burglary, robbery, motor vehicle theft (including unauthorized taking of motor vehicles), and murder (murder and nonnegligent manslaughter in the United States; murder, manslaughter and infanticide in England) seem quite comparable in both countries."

Also:

"While crime definitions were reasonably comparable between England and the United States, characteristics of the crimes differed between the two countries. For example, according to 1996 police statistics, firearms were used in 7% of English murders (Home Office, 1997, table 3.2) but 68% of U.S. murders (FBI, 1997, table 2.9). Likewise, according to 1996 police statistics on robbery, 41% of U.S. robberies (FBI, 1997, page 29) but 5% of English robberies (Home Office, 1997, table A4.5, page 65) involved a firearm. Furthermore, according to latest victim survey statistics (1995 in England; 1996 in the United States), 28% of U.S. robberies involved a firearm compared to 4% of English robberies."

What was that about only criminals having guns if guns were outlawed? Seems like the criminals in the UK had hardly any back then.......

Theres a reason I use that study, it was the most recent scholorly article compairing violent crime rates in the two countries as conducted by the BJS under the direction of the Department of Justice. Yes there are other studies but none come close to the level that this one has been reviewed and researched. Plus one of my proffesors helped write it so it was discussed frequently over the course of several of my courses with that proffesor. Want to read the full report (oh its long as hell) they have a link to it here http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/graphics/justice-department-cjusew96.pdf

My reason for saying your numbers dont match up is because in all the links you previously posted they send you directly to the UCR (or equivilant) of each involved nation however they do not explain any of the differnces in overall methodology and compairability between those reports so mearly looking at per capita rates as reported by each individual country does you no good. And as I said earlier England and Austrailia have higher rates of violent crime I was never going for murder. Is that misquoted as murder/homicide by people on both sides of the gun arguement, yes. Violent crime commited with firearms is more likely to occur in this country however the mantra of "Only outlaws will have guns" still holds true if you were to compair the number of estimated self defence instances involving a firearm in the two countries. Unfortunately neither country has any methodology to track those cases so good luck finding a scholorly article on it, they only track situations that actually involve rounds fired in the US and they dont track it at all in England or Austrailia.

 

[Flash]

Why do you guys put yourselves through this pointless exercise? Flash will ever remain the bastion of deluded liberal milquetoast and the gun crowd will remain just as rabid as ever. Don't like guns, then don't use them, but respect the fundamental right of Americans to do so. Interjecting arguments about crime and statistics on either side doesn't accomplish anything and doesn't persuade anyone.

Brett

You really think that? Well, I always figured you were deluded........

Why have I posted all of the above info? Well, because people on this thread started throwing around grand statements that we are safer becasue we have guns and the crime rate has spiked in countries that have restricted them, without anything to back it up but hot air........ Well, I have posted original source material showing that htose statements are false, plain and simple. Methodology can't explain away the yawning gap in the murder rates and using old data doesn't help.

Plus, I'm bored.......

P.S. I never said I was pro-gun control, you just assumed so.......

 

[Brett327]

P.S. I never said I was pro-gun control, you just assumed so.......

No, I know you're not pro gun control, you just like to indulge in the most inane, excruciating, mind-numbingly boring rhetorical diatribes. Save it.

Brett

 

[Flash]

No, I know you're not pro gun control, you just like to indulge in the most inane, excruciating, mind-numbingly boring rhetorical diatribes. Save it.

Brett

What else would I do with my time?

 

[raptor10]

What else would I do with my time?

One preacher's message: Have hotter sex

“I was raised to think sex was bad,” 23-year-old Kym Blackburn recalls of her religious upbringing. She forced her husband, Matt, a U.S. Navy enlisted man, to attend, but now he is glad he did. He is awaiting a second deployment to Iraq, and thinks their marriage will grow stronger in the weeks before he leaves.

Should this be under "Why I love San Diego...?"