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Why do Navy 60's not fly with forward cockpit doors removed a la Army?
- Thread starter ChuckMK23
- Start date
I would think there would be few advantages to doors off. the increased drag will limit speed to an extent and the loss of even that little extra armor may be the difference when it comes to small arms fire not to mention all the weather / extra dust in the cockpit and possible loss of kneeboard cards/maps.
Did not know about the structural issues.
Did not know about the structural issues.
Firehawk
New Member
First post...looks like an interesting community.
Was an HH-60H guy for 8 years. Here's a few reasons for flying with doors....
- ECS. Having the doors on allows the cockpit to retain cool air from the ECS system.
- Noise. Having that kind of wind blast in the cockpit makes for an incredible amount of noise. Difficult for pilots to hear radios, ICS, ect.
- Organization. Over my tenure with Navy helos, during CSAR/SOF exercises, pilots usually had maps, cards and checklists lying on the center console. Not sure how the SOAR guys didn't lose paperwork, unless they just didn't take any with them, or kept it controlled somehow.
- NAVAIR. The door is part of the aircraft structure. The Navy/NAVAIR has always been very strict about making "airframe modifications" without approval. Flying with the cockpit doors removed in the Navy has always been a no-no, and just something that we don't do. Even in Iraq, we never really considered it. Pilots weren't interested. Also, not sure how Blackhawk doors are attached to the airframe, but B/F/H doors are bolted/cotter keyed, with an outward locking mechanism integrated into the door handle (ie, the doors stay locked outward until the door handle is turned). Doors are not easy to remove and reinstall. Navy publications say they must be installed, so they are.
- Egress. As long as we're talking about "over water" Navy helos, we have to talk about flotation. The cockpit doors have ejectable windows for egress. With the doors off, water would easily flood the cockpit. The H-60 is known to float nose-down, two-thirds submerged. Faster flooding would give Aircrews considerably less time to egress the aircraft during an overwater ditch.
Those are the primary reasons I know of.
Hope this helped answer your question. :thumbup_1
Was an HH-60H guy for 8 years. Here's a few reasons for flying with doors....
- ECS. Having the doors on allows the cockpit to retain cool air from the ECS system.
- Noise. Having that kind of wind blast in the cockpit makes for an incredible amount of noise. Difficult for pilots to hear radios, ICS, ect.
- Organization. Over my tenure with Navy helos, during CSAR/SOF exercises, pilots usually had maps, cards and checklists lying on the center console. Not sure how the SOAR guys didn't lose paperwork, unless they just didn't take any with them, or kept it controlled somehow.
- NAVAIR. The door is part of the aircraft structure. The Navy/NAVAIR has always been very strict about making "airframe modifications" without approval. Flying with the cockpit doors removed in the Navy has always been a no-no, and just something that we don't do. Even in Iraq, we never really considered it. Pilots weren't interested. Also, not sure how Blackhawk doors are attached to the airframe, but B/F/H doors are bolted/cotter keyed, with an outward locking mechanism integrated into the door handle (ie, the doors stay locked outward until the door handle is turned). Doors are not easy to remove and reinstall. Navy publications say they must be installed, so they are.
- Egress. As long as we're talking about "over water" Navy helos, we have to talk about flotation. The cockpit doors have ejectable windows for egress. With the doors off, water would easily flood the cockpit. The H-60 is known to float nose-down, two-thirds submerged. Faster flooding would give Aircrews considerably less time to egress the aircraft during an overwater ditch.
Those are the primary reasons I know of.
Hope this helped answer your question. :thumbup_1
It's SOP for 160th to fly with cockpit doors removed. MH-47s have even had them off for certain missions. (They're a pain in th ass to re-install) Certain WX conditions make it impractical to fly with them off though. When you spend as much time as we do hovering over a bridge wing, staring at a deck lounge chair while as your only reference while roping your boys, you need all the help you can get. That said, there's been many nights when I wore a neoprene gator mask, and insulated ski gloves while flying an MH-6 doors off in KY during the middle of winter.