Why are you Leaving?

[Griz882]

Excellent find @robav8r. This line from the article says it all...

"First, should be a firm statement that a return combat readiness and iron discipline will the primary emphasis of the Navy and Marine Corps."

It would also be great if the new SecNav brought in something like Britain's Brickwood Trophy to get morale up.

 

[LFCFan]

Agreed - - somewhere in the thinking of every GCC is the notion that a a CSG = presence, yet a high profile sailing such as publicized FON ops or publicized, simultaneous port calls of a couple SSGNs in Westpac achieves similar objectives.

Firepower has changed significantly with the advent of TLAMs and PGMs - what was done to Libya in '86 by 3 x CVBGs, 18 x F111s, and 4 x EF111s could theoretically be done by 1 x DDG with TLAMs.

You don't need a CSG for everything - Action Officers - write that down.

You don't need a CSG for everything, but TLAM does not pack the kind of punch you get from a fighter. It's a scapel, and sometimes you need sledgehammers.

 

[sevenhelmet]

You don't need a CSG for everything, but TLAM does not pack the kind of punch you get from a fighter. It's a scapel, and sometimes you need sledgehammers.

I'd actually say a strike fighter is the scalpel, with the option to employ a variety of weapons with varying CDE and multiple modes of employment, along with a human in the loop a lot later in the game, in case something changes. TLAM is more of a hammer, at least the way I've observed it being employed. But your point is a good one.

 

[BigRed389]

I'd actually say a strike fighter is the scalpel, with the option to employ a variety of weapons with varying CDE and multiple modes of employment, along with a human in the loop a lot later in the game, in case something changes. TLAM is more of a hammer, at least the way I've observed it being employed. But your point is a good one.

Yeah, when your repertoire is limited to "1000lb warhead" and "more 1000lb warheads", hard to call it a scalpel.

Though you do get MITL with Block IV TLAMs.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Yeah, when your repertoire is limited to "1000lb warhead" and "more 1000lb warheads", hard to call it a scalpel.

Without getting into actual munition loadouts, don't F/A-18's have the capability to carry 500, 1,000, and 2,000 lb JDAMs, the 250 lb SDB, hard target penetrators, and various standoff air-ground munitions?

 

[BarrettRC8]

Yeah, when your repertoire is limited to "1000lb warhead" and "more 1000lb warheads", hard to call it a scalpel.

Though you do get MITL with Block IV TLAMs.

Oh I don't know, being able to hit a fast moving target with a 500lb GBU-54 and a CEP not much larger than the height of an average man is pretty precise.

20MM with laser ranging isn't bad either.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Without getting into actual munition loadouts, don't F/A-18's have the capability to carry 500, 1,000, and 2,000 lb JDAMs, the 250 lb SDB, hard target penetrators, and various standoff air-ground munitions?

Oh I don't know, being able to hit a fast moving target with a 500lb GBU-54 and a CEP not much larger than the height of an average man is pretty precise.

20MM with laser ranging isn't bad either.

Pretty sure he was referring to TLAM's as having one class of warhead

 

[LFCFan]

Pretty sure he was referring to TLAM's as having one class of warhead

Yep. That and the fact that said warhead is pretty small compared to some of the "hammers" we have out there.

 

[azguy]

This debate is crazy. TLAM vs strike fighter? How about they are both exquisite and lethal weapons of war with differing capabilities and limitations that will dictate optimal weapon/target pairing against specific target sets?

 

[BigRed389]

Pretty sure he was referring to TLAM's as having one class of warhead

Yup. Although we do/did have TLAMs with submunition dispensers if you want to be even LESS precise.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Back on topic: Why are you leaving? Because USMC decided not to promote the pilots they claim to be desperately short of, then they lie to them to trick them into staying on. Oh yeah, better decline by the end of the month or you incur a three year obligation. That's also probably not legal.

http://www.marines.mil/News/Message...d-captain-aviators-selected-for-continuation/

 

[Recovering LSO]

Back on topic: Why are you leaving? Because USMC decided not to promote the pilots they claim to be desperately short of, then they lie to them to trick them into staying on. Oh yeah, better decline by the end of the month or you incur a three year obligation. That's also probably not legal.

http://www.marines.mil/News/Message...d-captain-aviators-selected-for-continuation/

If I read that last paragraph correctly, if you elect to "continue," you could be assigned anywhere? So you could be a Hornet dude who has not selected for MAJ (twice), elect to continue, and then find yourself NOT flying Hornets for the 36 months that you're on the hook for? Or did I miss something that says that the 36 months are intended to be spent flying - since, you know, the whole reason for this was:

"Company grade aviator inventory levels are at such a level that continuation on active duty of those Captain aviators who have twice failed selection to the rank of Major is necessary..."

 

[Treetop Flyer]

If I read that last paragraph correctly, if you elect to "continue," you could be assigned anywhere? So you could be a Hornet dude who has not selected for MAJ (twice), elect to continue, and then find yourself NOT flying Hornets for the 36 months that you're on the hook for? Or did I miss something that says that the 36 months are intended to be spent flying - since, you know, the whole reason for this was:

"Company grade aviator inventory levels are at such a level that continuation on active duty of those Captain aviators who have twice failed selection to the rank of Major is necessary..."

The only way I see this making sense for someone was to extend in a VT/station billet to build time. I don't foresee a lot of dudes wanting three more years as a terminal captain getting single digit monthly hours and soaking up IA's

 

[pourts]

Back on topic: Why are you leaving? Because USMC decided not to promote the pilots they claim to be desperately short of, then they lie to them to trick them into staying on. Oh yeah, better decline by the end of the month or you incur a three year obligation. That's also probably not legal.

http://www.marines.mil/News/Message...d-captain-aviators-selected-for-continuation/

This thread is public, right? So all the kids applying to OCS and ROTC can see the type of organization they are joining? This makes it a pretty quick answer for all those "should I joing the Navy or Marine Corps" questions. Caveat Emptor or whatever

 

[Treetop Flyer]

This thread is public, right? So all the kids applying to OCS and ROTC can see the type of organization they are joining? This makes it a pretty quick answer for all those "should I joing the Navy or Marine Corps" questions. Caveat Emptor or whatever

Problem: they are short on pilots

Solution #1: increase quality of life, offer a bonus, promote them at the same rate as non-pilots

Solution #2: promote them at a 20% lower rate than non pilots, systematically lie to them hoping to trick them into sticking around for three more years of the same bullshit without a chance of a retirement, don't do anything to address the actual reasons people are leaving

Seems like a pretty tough choice. Let's see how it works out for them.