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Why are you Leaving?

If you're talking about the M-197 shenanigans, that's because of completely ridiculous HERO restrictions that have to be coordinated hours in advance. (There are other underlying factors too, not appropriate for here but also don't have to do with perceptions of HSC) No one is freaking out thinking that your 2P is going to take out people on the bow cats - some people are freaking out that a radar will cause rounds to start popping off.
 
squorch2 said:
If you're talking about the M-197 shenanigans, that's because of completely ridiculous HERO restrictions that have to be coordinated hours in advance. (There are other underlying factors too, not appropriate for here but also don't have to do with perceptions of HSC) No one is freaking out thinking that your 2P is going to take out people on the bow cats - some people are freaking out that a radar will cause rounds to start popping off.
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That doesn't explain the longstanding bullshit surrounding the perceptions of helicopters when it comes to AGM-114, .50cal, and 7.62mm.
 
jtmedli said:
And that's all well and good, but then why is the community's weapons school and certain HSC squadrons running around getting all 'super tactical' and acting like a bunch of fucking 'know-it-alls' and running everyone else through the ringer with 2000 slide powerpoint briefs and unrealistic, asinine check-ride scenarios in the name of doing something that we all know we're not gonna do? How's about we all "get real" and relax a bit?
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Let the hate flow THROUGH you... You sound like a LAMPS JO 10 years ago. What's that saying...? The more things change...?


Then why bother? If you can't risk losing a helo for sake of your career then what are we doing here? Cause it sure as hell isn't fighting wars anymore. It's career progression and cover your ass school at that point.
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I've always heard that the "loss" of a helo isn't necessarily about the actual combat/ORM loss of an asset, but the the physical loss of it while it's off saving the world from the Jihad. A relevant concern? I'm not educated enough to know, but the recurring theme I've always heard was that if the section/division of xH-60x is off playing war hero, it's not available to....do whatever it is you're needed to do back at the carrier. That new release of "American Sniper" isn't going to get to the Cruiser by itself, my boy!
 
robav8r said:
The issue is what the "system" recognizes in terms of your professional development and ability to promote. CDO underway plays pretty well in the tank against all the other designators. And, let's face it, if your CO thinks you have what it takes to replace him, he's going to push you towards the accepted norms of the Navy. I hear (and agree) with your argument though. It's interesting to read about what was considered important professionally both before and after the start of WW II. Pearl Harbor comes to mind . . . .
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Yeah, that's my point. The system is broken. How many SWOs do you see working on some sort of aviation qual because it looks good to the tank? Sounds pretty stupid I know. Someone pretty senior needs to put their foot down and say enough is enough. We are very quickly getting to the point where we won't have the technological advantage that we have fallen back on and it truly will be the men in the box that decides the outcome. At least I'll be able to drive the boat that picks me out of the water after hanging around in the silk.
 
pilot_man said:
There seems to be way to much emotion in this discussion. Yes it sucks to hear that your background might not be the best fit for a job but that is just how it is. When you consider how a CVW is composed it makes sense that the CVW Commander should come from someone who knows how to execute a strike and not from being a part of the supporting cast.

Also, I think this point gets glossed over way too much, THE POINT OF A CVN IS TO PUT FIGHTERS AND STRIKERS INTO HARMS WAY. Everything else is there for support. Yes, everything and everyone is just as important but the roll of the boat isn't to launch E-2s to keep an eye on things. Would it make sense that the commander of a SEAL team be from a COMMs shop background? Fuck no.
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Yup, people don' t like hearing that their performance in flight school, starting day 1 at API, affects their career potential, but it's a fact. Sure, some guys legitimately get drafted, but if I had a nickel for every time I heard that excuse, I'd be a rich man.

I saw people take VS cuz they wanted to live in San Diego, then they complained when that they were irrelevant - duh, it was pretty much obvious that was gonna happen. And that's no dig on the old VS community - they played an important part in the scheme of things, but if you thing sitting in the right seat giving tank signals to the pointy nosed types is going to make you the tactical equivalent the guys doing that job... well you'd be mistaken. It was especially apparent when the VS transition types coming into VFA...

Having observed briefs from "strike lead events" from VF/VFA/VAQ (EA-6B)/VAW/VS, it's obvious when someone spends 40 minutes out of a 60 minute brief on admin, emergencies, and comm checks that they aren't very knowledgeable about what goes down on the sharped edge.
 
RHINOWSO said:
Yup, people don' t like hearing that their performance in flight school, starting day 1 at API, affects their career potential, but it's a fact. Sure, some guys legitimately get drafted, but if I had a nickel for every time I heard that excuse, I'd be a rich man.
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Except when they muck around with the minimum API NSS for pilot - or when they move year groups around - or when they change grading systems.

Given the vagaries and sheer unpredictability of "performance in flight school," leaving over half your talent on the cutting room floor is short-sighted at best.
 
squorch2 said:
Except when they muck around with the minimum API NSS for pilot - or when they move year groups around - or when they change grading systems.

Given the vagaries and sheer unpredictability of "performance in flight school," leaving over half your talent on the cutting room floor is short-sighted at best.
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Like I said, it does happen.

But then I saw peers go to Whiting wanting jets... then 6 weeks later when I ran into them at a bar they just wanted to survive, and suddenly they wanted helos / props... same in NFO land... and some of it was (inevitably) tied to being stupid in town, not taking things seriously, etc...

I guess I went into it with the mentality that if you were #1 the whole time, odds of getting fucked were greatly reduced. Is there luck involved? Certainly, but it is what it is. It's a production pipeline and the goal is numbers, not meeting everyones desires - But I still don't believe everyone who says there was a helo / P-3 / VAW draft when they go selected...
 
RHINOWSO said:
Like I said, it does happen.

But then I saw peers go to Whiting wanting jets... then 6 weeks later when I ran into them at a bar they just wanted to survive, and suddenly they wanted helos / props... same in NFO land... and some of it was (inevitably) tied to being stupid in town, not taking things seriously, etc...

I guess I went into it with the mentality that if you were #1 the whole time, odds of getting fucked were greatly reduced. Is there luck involved? Certainly, but it is what it is. It's a production pipeline and the goal is numbers, not meeting everyones desires - But I still don't believe everyone who says there was a helo / P-3 / VAW draft when they go selected...
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You sure do spend a lot of time talking about who does or does not possess the requisite hands-on experience to be in front. Do you actually manipulate the controls in the aircraft?
 
samguitar said:
You sure do spend a lot of time talking about who does or does not possess the requisite hands-on experience to be in front. Do you actually manipulate the controls in the aircraft?
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What are you suggesting, samguitar? That actually manipulating the controls imbues you with some sort of magical reasoning ability? That me being a WSO prevents me from knowing that, as a rule, the pilots with the best grades get what they want? That most of those guys want jets?

Or are you suggesting that a WSO can't objectively judge how good of a pilot someone is? Because that is for sure not true.

C'mon, we're all big boys and girls here.
 
samguitar said:
You sure do spend a lot of time talking about who does or does not possess the requisite hands-on experience to be in front. Do you actually manipulate the controls in the aircraft?
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I don't think that's adding to what's largely been a productive discussion.

EDIT: I'll add that I think it's derisive. If anything, the brown shoe wearing Navy is becoming increasingly fragmented, parochial, and silly in their attempts to justify both their existence and part of the ever decreasing pie. Could we better spend out time focusing on our skills instead of the next IA Version? Sure. We also need to spend time learning what the other guys bring to the table and not assume their all flight school bottom feeders if they didn't end up in a Hornet.
 
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Let's put it this way: I never played linebacker; a WSO can objectively judge how good a pilot is just as well as I can judge how good Brian Urlacher is.
 
RHINOWSO said:
Like I said, it does happen.

But then I saw peers go to Whiting wanting jets... then 6 weeks later when I ran into them at a bar they just wanted to survive, and suddenly they wanted helos / props... same in NFO land... and some of it was (inevitably) tied to being stupid in town, not taking things seriously, etc...

I guess I went into it with the mentality that if you were #1 the whole time, odds of getting fucked were greatly reduced. Is there luck involved? Certainly, but it is what it is. It's a production pipeline and the goal is numbers, not meeting everyones desires - But I still don't believe everyone who says there was a helo / P-3 / VAW draft when they go selected...
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What does this have to do with anything in this thread?
 
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