Who wants to be an NFO?

[MrSaturn]

Well, I assume that he was at one time.....

Very clever....

I also know a guy who looks exactly like that and is in VT-3 since Feb and is an ENS... Plus the video being a month old...

I of course could be wrong

 

[The Chief]

To Flathatter13-- I agree with you. My point was completely missed. ...

Mediate is what I do best

Flying, you have missed the point. You came in with sunglasses and a full disguise, i.e., no credentials in your profile. Responses were by and large keyed to that. That is fixed, now time to move on.

With all due respect, and admiration I might add, I do detect a possible chip on shoulder. Friendly advice, reflect on it and get rid of it.

 

[Cordespc]

Very clever....

I also know a guy who looks exactly like that and is in VT-3 since Feb and is an ENS... Plus the video being a month old...

I of course could be wrong

Good points, I could also be wrong...

 

[phrogpilot73]

How do I answer all these questions if a JG is supposed to be seen, not heard?!?

How about your wife? Does she join in, too? Unlike the "other woman" who was unwittingly brought into the fray by her spouse (with no street cred...the wife that is), your wife has credentials to offer an opinion.

Nope. My wife generally doesn't bust anyone's chops, well of course other than me! She was happy to hear that she had "street cred". I keep trying to get her to join, so Steve won't be the only one with a SWO pin (and she thinks Steve is a turncoat for wearing brown shoes! )

Hmm, do you even have an ID card yet (as active duty) or are you sporting a dependant's ID card?? :icon_smil

Nope - still a dependent's... If I get the time, I may just scan it in and show it to you!

 

[bunk22]

What the hell, I'll throw in like everyone else for the benefit of the newbies watching.


I learned early on a lesson as a "butterbar" that I only wish I would have understood better then. My instructor during Advanced Fighter Training at Tyndall told me "unless you can fly the plane and climb in the other seats and do those jobs at the same time, learn to appreciate your crew"

Well of course at the time being young and foolish I "politely" explained to said instructor that wso's were a waste of time and better used for extra fuel, he there after took me up and carrying his wso with him proceeded to KICK MY ASS, in an F-4 no less - later happily showing me the gun camera of me being killed over and over and rarely pulling over 4 g's while I was racking the plane around.

Turned out later to find out my instructor was a Vietnam vet with 2 kills and 5000+ hours and 100+ missions. - The point here being sometimes older guys aren't just old guys with stories sometimes they know exactly how to kick your ass and listening and respecting them is a wise thing to do.

The moral - they call it "Aircrew" for a reason, it takes two of you to employ the aircraft (4 for prowlers) and having an extra set of hands and eyes is never something to take lightly. My WSO was priceless, made my job in the frontseat easier and he and I had no illusions, I flew and he worked the systems, neither of us could do the others job and our own at the same time and neither wanted to.

Like A4's said my wso was the best friend I ever had/have and saved my life in fact, to underrate them mearly because they are not "pilots" is extremely ignorant and a true sign of you being both nieve and young.





So that everyone is 100% clear I am not directing any of this towards - Flyinglow - I am writing for the benefit of the younger crowd watching. :icon_wink

What was your IP's name, the one with the Mig kills?

 

[Flathatter13]

What was your IP's name, the one with the Mig kills?

F-4C #64-0776


I will no longer honor this man by mentioning his name in association with anything good to do with the military or aviation.
Especially Fighter Pilots/WSO's

 

[bunk22]

James Ward "Smash" got them in F-4C #40776

Interesting. I'm kind of a history geek but I see no F-4 Mig killers by the name of Ward. #4-0776 was used during three Mig kills though:

23 Apr 67--Maj R D Anderson/Capt F D Kjer--Mig-21
22 May 67--LtCol R f Titus/1st Lt M Zimer--Mig-21
22 May 67-- " " / " " --Mig-21

 

[Flathatter13]

Interesting. I'm kind of a history geek but I see no F-4 Mig killers by the name of Ward. #4-0776 was used during three Mig kills though:

23 Apr 67--Maj R D Anderson/Capt F D Kjer--Mig-21
22 May 67--LtCol R f Titus/1st Lt M Zimer--Mig-21
22 May 67-- " " / " " --Mig-21

I am unsure how to explain, I have photos of us next to the plane and it's got the kill marks and is labeled his plane and was told by all the crew chiefs that he specifically flew it home from Vietnam since it was "his" plane .

I never really thought much into it until now, perhaps I should verify his claims before quoting further.

It is up in Boeings museam now in Seattle. Repainted in ugly colors and renamed with generals names on it. If you look closely though in the wheel wells we all signed the plane on it's way to the museam circuit.



He told me he got two kills a Mig-17 with a 20mm gunpod and a Mig-21 with an Aim-9 , I always assumed he did it in that a/c as he said it came home with him from Vietnam, perhaps I was mislead/misunderstood (more likely the later) that they were in 776 or he just talked a good story. At any rate I know he did his time in nam as all the other old dogs in the squadron vouged for him as well. I never really had reason to doubt he got the kills as he was a SH pilot.

He was a great instructor that I wish I would have paid more attention to and not pissed off so much.

 

[HeyJoe]

Interesting. I'm kind of a history geek but I see no F-4 Mig killers by the name of Ward. #4-0776 was used during three Mig kills though:

23 Apr 67--Maj R D Anderson/Capt F D Kjer--Mig-21
22 May 67--LtCol R f Titus/1st Lt M Zimer--Mig-21
22 May 67-- " " / " " --Mig-21

I went to ACIG list of US MiG killers and don't see any pilots matching that name either

Usual practice was MiG kills are painted on the jet that made the kill* regardless of name on cockpit and you didn't fly "your" aircraft every time so that connection doesn't quite add up unless it was a strange coincidence

*Exception is publicity shots

#64-0776 today

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I keep trying to get her to join, so Steve won't be the only one with a SWO pin (and she thinks Steve is a turncoat for wearing brown shoes!

She's the one that jumped ship. And for the record, I didn't wear them all the time.

 

[Flathatter13]

I went to ACIG list of US MiG killers and don't see any pilots matching that name either

Usual practice was MiG kills are painted on the jet that made the kill* regardless of name on cockpit and you didn't fly "your" aircraft every time so that connection doesn't quite add up unless it was a strange coincidence

*Exception is publicity shots

#64-0776 today

Yeah love the AK tail code they put on it??


Well gents, I guess I feel a bit foolish, called two old squadron mates and emailed a couple others, and the resounding comment was, "oh yeah, you didn't know??? We thought everyone did, he was full of shit." Apparently he was in the squadron that 64-0776 was but was one of the guys who commonly had to turn back for maintance issues during a strike or cap. (A4's feel free to enlighten me with the name of what you guys called these people back in the day, so that I can keep it handy) So he had a real "reputation" if you will with the other guys, well when he returned from vietnam he went to Nellis and ducked out of site for a few years being an instructor, then came back to Tyndall (my meeting) and since the other old guys there were familure with him by squardron but not personally I guess he passed off alot of great stories about himself. Since the a/c was from his old squadron he got his name on the side and it officially became "his" airplane, and since none of us were old enough to know better what we asked but didn't directly get verified was left to be implied as truth to us from him.
Apparently in my youth as were some of my other fellow trainees it wasn't until we go to other squadrons that the true started to come out, well I guess when it did, he transferred to an ANG unit and hid out the rest of his time. Unfortunately because my time in pointed noses was cut short I was off to helo's before ever finding out the truth.

So the point of my original post still holds true for me and in my opinion about wso's importance and crew interaction.

But I guess I am greatly let down in what I thought was a great pilot and mentor. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Flash]

Interesting. I'm kind of a history geek but I see no F-4 Mig killers by the name of Ward. #4-0776 was used during three Mig kills though:

23 Apr 67--Maj R D Anderson/Capt F D Kjer--Mig-21
22 May 67--LtCol R f Titus/1st Lt M Zimer--Mig-21
22 May 67-- " " / " " --Mig-21

A little more info:

23 Apr 67-Maj Robert D. Anderson/Capt Fred D. Kjer-Mig-21 (AIM-7)
C/S- CHICAGO 03

22 May 67-LtCol Robert F. Titus/1st Lt Milan Zimer-Mig-21 (AIM-9D)
22 May 67-LtCol Robert F. Titus/1st Lt Milan Zimer-Mig-21 (20mm, gun pod)
C/S- WANDER 01

389 TFS/366TFW Tailcode-AK Base-Danang

.....yes, I have too much time on my hands......

 

[Flathatter13]

A little more info:

23 Apr 67-Maj Robert D. Anderson/Capt Fred D. Kjer-Mig-21 (AIM-7)
C/S- CHICAGO 03

22 May 67-LtCol Robert F. Titus/1st Lt Milan Zimer-Mig-21 (AIM-9D)
22 May 67-LtCol Robert F. Titus/1st Lt Milan Zimer-Mig-21 (20mm, gun pod)
C/S- WANDER 01

389 TFS/366TFW Tailcode-AK Base-Danang

.....yes, I have too much time on my hands......

Titus's gun kill was with the SUU-16 pod, in case anyone wants to get particular.

 

[Swanee]

What the hell, I'll throw in like everyone else for the benefit of the newbies watching.

*snip*

We have a similar "battle" in the hockey officiating world between referees and linesmen. For those who are unfamiliar with hockey refs call penalties and goals and "manage" the game whereas linesman call offsides, icing and other line calls and conduct faceoffs. A lot of referees look down on linesmen, and there is a saying, JFL or just a fvcking linesman. Well, those guys don't get very far and don't carry much respect. I was one of them and I never understood why these guys didn't want to wear the real "stripes" be referees. Then I was put on a very difficult game in front of about 2k people and two linesmen who decided not to do their job to show me just how much they do and how if they don't do their job I look like a fool. I'm sure this applies to NFOs as well, but a good linesmen can make a bad referee look good.

Well, on that game I got my dick knocked to the dirt, but sometimes that's a good thing.

 

[bunk22]

We have a similar "battle" in the hockey officiating world between referees and linesmen. For those who are unfamiliar with hockey refs call penalties and goals and "manage" the game whereas linesman call offsides, icing and other line calls and conduct faceoffs. A lot of referees look down on linesmen, and there is a saying, JFL or just a fvcking linesman. Well, those guys don't get very far and don't carry much respect. I was one of them and I never understood why these guys didn't want to wear the real "stripes" be referees. Then I was put on a very difficult game in front of about 2k people and two linesmen who decided not to do their job to show me just how much they do and how if they don't do their job I look like a fool. I'm sure this applies to NFOs as well, but a good linesmen can make a bad referee look good.

Well, on that game I got my dick knocked to the dirt, but sometimes that's a good thing.