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Which kind of a squadrons contains slots for junior AMDO?

Max the Mad Russian

Well-Known Member
Hello Gents,

From 1990s when I have read some Desert Storm books, I've learned that in an average VFA there were then two ground "Greenshirt" officers for general PAMO jobs, but both were usually LDOs (and one more, a Gunner, was CWO). In one squadron, if I not mistake VFA-131, there were one AMDO and one LDO. So the question is what kind of a maintenance job on a squadron level (i.e. before applying to AIMD) is proper for a commissioned RL AMDO of O-2/3 rank?

Everything is comparable, right? In a standard Russian squadron of MiG-29s (12 airplanes; about 1997), there were 15 pilots and 23 ground officers: 12 engineers O-2 (one per each bird) and 11 engineering duty officers (the leading engineer O-4, three O-2/3s for ordnance, three J-2/3s for engines and airplane hydraulics/electrics, three O-2/3s for electronics, one O-2 for catapult seats), plus 8 WOs and only 15+ enlisted personnell (mostly special truck/land tankers' drivers).

Given so big crowd of an officer engineers on a routine jobs here in Russia, I wonder how alone AMDO (a pair at best) can cope out with the whole squadron of US NavAir.

Thanks
 
www.amdo.org stated there are about 500 AMDOs from Ens to RADM. Clearly not enough for all NavAir squadrons:D
That number has been tailored down over the years. As per the OCM's FY-17 Community Brief, there were 413 total AMDOs from ENS to RDML. Also, keep in mind that LDOs and CWOs share aviation maintenance officer billets with AMDOs. So between the 6330s, 7331s, and 1520s, there are more than enough officers to fill all required squadron billets.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Don't forget that some of the day to day duties of the Maintenance Master Chief in a USN squadron might get done by a different rank/billet description in another country's military.
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
All squadrons have officers in their maintenance departments. Not all maintenance department officers are AMDOs.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Plus in the USN a lot of what is done in the Russian Navy by officers is done by enlisted.
 

Pags

Well-Known Member
pilot
Hello Gents,

From 1990s when I have read some Desert Storm books, I've learned that in an average VFA there were then two ground "Greenshirt" officers for general PAMO jobs, but both were usually LDOs (and one more, a Gunner, was CWO). In one squadron, if I not mistake VFA-131, there were one AMDO and one LDO. So the question is what kind of a maintenance job on a squadron level (i.e. before applying to AIMD) is proper for a commissioned RL AMDO of O-2/3 rank?

Everything is comparable, right? In a standard Russian squadron of MiG-29s (12 airplanes; about 1997), there were 15 pilots and 23 ground officers: 12 engineers O-2 (one per each bird) and 11 engineering duty officers (the leading engineer O-4, three O-2/3s for ordnance, three J-2/3s for engines and airplane hydraulics/electrics, three O-2/3s for electronics, one O-2 for catapult seats), plus 8 WOs and only 15+ enlisted personnell (mostly special truck/land tankers' drivers).

Given so big crowd of an officer engineers on a routine jobs here in Russia, I wonder how alone AMDO (a pair at best) can cope out with the whole squadron of US NavAir.

Thanks
The other thing to remember is that in a USN Squadron the aviators/NFOs can also fill maintenance officer roles.
 

Gonzo08

*1. Gangbar Off
None
So one of the things to keep in mind with Navy squadrons is that aircrew are also maintenance leaders. While we are not maintenance professionals, junior aircrew are expected to fill the rolls of Division Officers who are responsible for certain maintenance divisions in the squadron. Usually you will have 2-3 LDOs, or "ground pounders" as well call them, who are maintenance professionals, but aircrew JOs will be responsible for enlisted maintainers as their "ground job" when not flying.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Well-Known Member
Thank you all Gents,


The only thing that does rest unclear for me is what is the key factor by which 1520 types differ from 6330/7331s on a squadron level? Or maybe on this level there is no difference and the main aim for 1520 (probably just like for 1310/1320 as well) JOs assigned to a Maintenance Dept is that experience they should obtain by managing/supervising the professional enlisted personnel's work. Right?

With all due respect to a CPO corps of USN, I'm still wondering how they can learn the airplane systems deep enough (to be the real troubleshooters) without engineering (i.e. math oriented) degree. I'm far from overestimating the quality of the eng degree the Russian ground officers in AF/NavAir usually have, but... 5 years of special college all of them graduate from don't make them familiar enough with the airplanes until they possess O-2. Or maybe the serviceability of those fucking MiGs and Sus is far worse than that of the Western airplanes. MiG-29 is "flying hydraulic leak", for example, and the main landing gears' folding system of MiG-23 is worth the Nobel prize for the complexity and unreliability...
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Officers don’t turn wrenches in the USN.

You are underestimating our enlisted maintainers, they have the expertise. They understand the systems, how they work, how to troubleshoot them, and how to fix them.
 

Max the Mad Russian

Well-Known Member
They understand the systems, how they work, how to troubleshoot them, and how to fix them.
This is the more general difference, deeper than militaries usually think. In Russian opinion, "engineer" is an equivalent to a "degree". I.e. one cannot "understand the systems" having no degree related to those systems. And yes, sometimes s/he will turn the wrenches just in case or to train the working forces. In my opinion, this culture is the root cause that prevents the professional CPO corps' emergence in Russian military. If there is something intricate and important to do it should be done by the officers with related training based on related degree, period. As usually, this is simultaneously good and bad...
 

cricechex

Member
In general,
It is “overkill” to utilize an “engineer” to service oil, change a hydraulic pump, or fix a broken wire. The Navy utilizes quality enlisted training, near “fool proof” maintenance manuals, and a “phone a friend” approach to engineering support at the squadron level. In other words, one engineer supports many squadrons because there just isn’t that many issues that need an engineer’s input to resolve. Our ground officers, in general, lead the enlisted effort and manage the programs with highest safety risks. Normally, a mix of 3 AMDOs/LDOs will get this job done but there are many exceptions.
 
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