When to eject ????

[mike bennett]

Dear Forum Members,
I run a website on ejection history and was sent the following letter

"I was doing some research about fighter jet pilots ejecting from aircraft and found your site. Do you know where I could find USAF, USMC and USN guidelines or instructions to pilots that tell them when they are supposed to eject as opposed to when they should try to save the aircraft?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you."

As I always profess - I am not qualified to answer such qusetions never having been in the military - but I am sure many of you will have an input to this

Regards

Mike Bennett
Project Get Out and Walk
www.ejection-history.org.uk

 

[wink]

The most common guidline is: out of controlled flight below 10,000 feet agl, eject. There are others that are specific to the aircraft model. You can imagine that there are several scenarios when operating around the ship where ejection is immediate. Problems right off the cat can call for immediate ejection. Close in on approach is another. You don't streatch a glide to a CV and you don't have the option of landing short on the opposite direction over run or clear area. There isn't any. It has also been my observation that in the Navy and USMC we tend to not be shy about chucking an aircraft. If ejection is called for we get out. Even today you hear about USAF guys dead sticking aircraft into the field. That is very very rare in naval aviation. There is alot of experience on this forum, hope you get some good posts.

 

[Schnugg]

Short of specific NATOPS defined criteria, such as out of control flight below a certain altutude, or a dual engine failure with no relight...for example, it is left up to crew discretion.

A topic of many ready room discussions.

For example most carrier ejection capable aircraft with multi-crew discuss cat shot end speed as an ejection criteria. In my case the day time end speed was 10 kts less than the night time speed.

 

[SteveG75]

A lot of pilots have died trying to land during a bad emergency vice ejecting. When I taught in the RAG, I used to give guys in the simulator a scenario that required ejection. The lesson was that no airplane is worth your life.

 

[Pugs]

I'm not sure I ever successfully landed during a NATOPS sim. Almost always was put in a situation that forced to realize the jet was going to pieces and it was time to step out. You can count the number of guys who ejected and shouldn't have on very few fingers and those that should have or should have earlier fill a lot of cemetery's.

 

[Punk]

Let me tell you, coming from the T-45 with a better seat and a much shorter delay to the Prowler, with a not as good seat and 1.2 sec delay, I've had to rethink my ejection criteria alot. I will not stay with this aircraft as long as I would have with the 45.

Edited at the request of one in the know-too close to the event.

 

[brd2881]

Wow...the disdain Punk . In the hornet we can actually ride the jet OCF down to 6000AGL when "dive recovery must be initiated" or you ride the rails.

 

[Punk]

Wow...the disdain Punk . In the hornet we can actually ride the jet OCF down to 6000AGL when "dive recovery must be initiated" or you ride the rails.

I've already been told that at my weight, I will be less than ok after the ejection. Survive the ejection, maybe. Be able to walk away, probably not.

So yeah, I might only get one ride on the rails in this seat. That's if I'm not out of the envelope by the time my seat fires.

And no, I'm not fat, I'm just a small guy.

 

[Punk]

1.2 seconds is a hell of a long time when you are talking about ejecting. Why is the delay so long? Does it have somthing to do with getting 4 guys out and they have to be syncronized?

Yep, 4 guys, with .4 sec delay between each seat. That's with ECMO 3 having ZERO delay. There's been quite a few Prowler mishaps where the GIB's get out fine but either the pilot and/or ECMO 1 doesn't get out in time.

 

[Brett327]

Yep, 4 guys, with .4 sec delay between each seat. That's with ECMO 3 having ZERO delay. There's been quite a few Prowler mishaps where the GIB's get out fine but either the pilot and/or ECMO 1 doesn't get out in time.

Funny you lament the Prowler ejection system, but it has one of the best records for in envelope survivability. In the ejection I witnessed, the MA was about 2 seconds from going over the side when ejection was initiated and everyone got out fine.

I must say, extremely poor form on the "1 less Prowler" comment. That experience, regardless of outcome, must have sucked in a way neither of us can understand. To make light is well below average. If it were up to me, you'd be flying the last Prowler to the boneyard on your twilight tour.

Brett

 

[Punk]

Funny you lament the Prowler ejection system, but it has one of the best records for in envelope survivability. In the ejection I witnessed, the MA was about 2 seconds from going over the side when ejection was initiated and everyone got out fine.

I must say, extremely poor form on the "1 less Prowler" comment. That experience, regardless of outcome, must have sucked in a way neither of us can understand. To make light is well below average. If it were up to me, you'd be flying the last Prowler to the boneyard on your twilight tour.

Brett

I'll agree it has good survivability. I had a chat with the seat shop guys about the seat (I wanted to make sure I knew how to preflight it) and then we discussed my weight, needless to say my eyes opened alittle wider.

And I apologize for the Prowler comment. You're right, it was made in bad taste.

 

[Brett327]

I'll agree it has good survivability. I had a chat with the seat shop guys about the seat (I wanted to make sure I knew how to preflight it) and then we discussed my weight, needless to say my eyes opened alittle wider.

And I apologize for the Prowler comment. You're right, it was made in bad taste.

One boring day on deployment, a rather hefty shipmate and I figured the ejection height "apogee" differential between him and my more "trim" physique using the chart in NATOPS. The difference was impressive (> 150 Ft). Be that as it may, there are guys who are at the edges of the weight envelope who have ejected w/o serious problems.

Brett