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What Are You Listening To?

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
History books, sure. History text books assigned in high school and especially college, no.
Again, there are plenty of choices out there for schools and professors to chose from. The history books my professors taught from at my school were pretty straightforward, to include the one for the course titled 'The War of Southern Independence'. And if the student, professor or class were any good they wouldn't be getting all their info from a textbook anyways.
 

Judge Q

Judging You
And if the student, professor or class were any good they wouldn't be getting all their info from a textbook anyways.
I've been saying that for years but my professors keep telling me I can't use Wikipedia anyway.
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Again, there are plenty of choices out there for schools and professors to chose from. The history books my professors taught from at my school were pretty straightforward, to include the one for the course titled 'The War of Southern Independence'. And if the student, professor or class were any good they wouldn't be getting all their info from a textbook anyways.
Sure there are choices. Professors of all stripes must publish. But only a very small fraction get assigned as texts. In public schools it is generally what CA or TX approved for their kids. It is a racket. They are almost all progressive and left of center.

College is slightly different because a prof can assign most whatever he wants. Given the vast majority of liberal arts profs are left of center you will get that selection in a text. If the prof wrote one, chances are it is from a left wing world view and he will assign his own and defend it. You are certainly right about students using other sources. But if the prof professes and promotes a certain view point, especially by way of denigrating other view points, you ain't going to get many students to search out other sources to support a point of view contrary to the prof when he just told everyone anyone holding that view was a moran, immoral, intolerant and more. They just take the easy way out. Use the prof's resources, mimic his world view, get a good grade and get out. Better than working hard independently, get hammered on the grade and possibly publicly humiliated.

You went to college years ago. Your experiences may have been different. Mine certainly were. I have just had three kids complete a total of 15 years at university undergrad and graduate school. It is different out there Flash. Sadly so.
 

PNW Flyer

Active Member
None
Sure there are choices. Professors of all stripes must publish. But only a very small fraction get assigned as texts. In public schools it is generally what CA or TX approved for their kids. It is a racket. They are almost all progressive and left of center.

College is slightly different because a prof can assign most whatever he wants. Given the vast majority of liberal arts profs are left of center you will get that selection in a text. If the prof wrote one, chances are it is from a left wing world view and he will assign his own and defend it. You are certainly right about students using other sources. But if the prof professes and promotes a certain view point, especially by way of denigrating other view points, you ain't going to get many students to search out other sources to support a point of view contrary to the prof when he just told everyone anyone holding that view was a moran, immoral, intolerant and more. They just take the easy way out. Use the prof's resources, mimic his world view, get a good grade and get out. Better than working hard independently, get hammered on the grade and possibly publicly humiliated.

You went to college years ago. Your experiences may have been different. Mine certainly were. I have just had three kids complete a total of 15 years at university undergrad and graduate school. It is different out there Flash. Sadly so.
What in the hell are you even talking about dude? What do you classify as "left-wing world-view" in the liberal arts? Information that contradicts what you learned in the 60s? The fields of history, anthropology, historiography, etc have advanced by leaps and bounds in the last 50 years.

I'd be extremely curious to have you cite some specific historical facts or events you our children were presented that you view as mis-taught or left wing propaganda. I have a hunch what you're referring to but if like to hear you say it.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
To be honest, with a few exceptions, there really isn't a whole lot of room in most college courses to inject political bias one way or another. Unless you're in a gender studies curriculum, or the entire history or poli-sci department has been radicalized, it doesn't seem worth worrying about. Yes, there are some places like Evergreen or Reed or UCSC that are pretty far out there, but taken as a whole, the "radical-left is indoctrinating our youth" boogeyman is a bit overblown.

I definitely became more moderate after going to college, but that's because I learned how to think more clearly and objectively - not because some socialist history prof poisoned my mind with post-modernism.
 

Python1287

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
To be honest, with a few exceptions, there really isn't a whole lot of room in most college courses to inject political bias one way or another. Unless you're in a gender studies curriculum, or the entire history or poli-sci department has been radicalized, it doesn't seem worth worrying about. Yes, there are some places like Evergreen or Reed or UCSC that are pretty far out there, but taken as a whole, the "radical-left is indoctrinating our youth" boogeyman is a bit overblown.

I definitely became more moderate after going to college, but that's because I learned how to think more clearly and objectively - not because some socialist history prof poisoned my mind with post-modernism.
I would argue that entire liberal arts departments have been radicalized. And I would argue that has happened at more than just Reed and a couple of other places. It is not overblown. If anything, based on what you’ve said in your post, it is underestimated.
 

PNW Flyer

Active Member
None
I would argue that entire liberal arts departments have been radicalized. And I would argue that has happened at more than just Reed and a couple of other places. It is not overblown. If anything, based on what you’ve said in your post, it is underestimated.
Argue based on what, exactly?
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
What in the hell are you even talking about dude? What do you classify as "left-wing world-view" in the liberal arts? Information that contradicts what you learned in the 60s? The fields of history, anthropology, historiography, etc have advanced by leaps and bounds in the last 50 years.

I'd be extremely curious to have you cite some specific historical facts or events you our children were presented that you view as mis-taught or left wing propaganda. I have a hunch what you're referring to but if like to hear you say it.
Shit your diaper did you? Challenge your self righteous perch? Can't imagine that just some of those leaps and bounds you cherish have been to advance causes not related to science or objective truth? Maybe the very fact that you can't seem to accept that every so called advance wasn't in the right direction for the right reasons and that not everything that was learned 100, 50, or even 10 years ago was rubbish, is proof that your education was not classily liberal, but left wing pablum. Your diaper stinks. Go to the big boys room and clean yourself off.
 

wink

VS NFO. Blue and Gold Officer
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
To be honest, with a few exceptions, there really isn't a whole lot of room in most college courses to inject political bias one way or another....
I am curious. What do you mean by "Isn't a whole lot of room" ? Isn't a tenured college professor in his class room is far more independent and even powerful that the commander of a ship at sea or even a judge in the courtroom?
 

PNW Flyer

Active Member
None
I'd be extremely curious to have you cite some specific historical facts or events you our children were presented that you view as mis-taught or left wing propaganda. I have a hunch what you're referring to but if like to hear you say it.
Shit your diaper did you? Challenge your self righteous perch? Can't imagine that just some of those leaps and bounds you cherish have been to advance causes not related to science or objective truth? Maybe the very fact that you can't seem to accept that every so called advance wasn't in the right direction for the right reasons and that not everything that was learned 100, 50, or even 10 years ago was rubbish, is proof that your education was not classily liberal, but left wing pablum. Your diaper stinks. Go to the big boys room and clean yourself off.
Look wink, I obviously struck a nerve when I made that collective comment a few months back, and obviously the diaper shtick has gotten under your skin. I'm sorry if I made you feel bad on the internet.

Just understand that when you imagine there is a vast left wing conspiracy in academia and can't point to a single fact, course, subject, etc cetera, it doesn't make you look super credible.

So once again, as you are the one challenging the status quo here... What evidence do you have to support the assertion that there is a left wing takeover of liberal arts in academia?

I am curious. What do you mean by "Isn't a whole lot of room" ? Isn't a tenured college professor in his class room is far more independent and even powerful that the commander of a ship at sea or even a judge in the courtroom?
Hmmm. Haven't seen a prof put a stud on bread and water recently, or have an unruly student restrained. So no.

Why do you believe that?

Did a professor of humanities kick your dog or something?
 

Playawon

Well-Known Member
I am curious. What do you mean by "Isn't a whole lot of room" ? Isn't a tenured college professor in his class room is far more independent and even powerful that the commander of a ship at sea or even a judge in the courtroom?
This, tenured college professors can teach pretty much whatever they want. So there's plenty of "room".
Scholarly history books too often include historians revising history due to what they believe to be the case politically.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I would argue that entire liberal arts departments have been radicalized. And I would argue that has happened at more than just Reed and a couple of other places. It is not overblown. If anything, based on what you’ve said in your post, it is underestimated.
I respect your opinion on that, but it's not the only one out there. If you've read any of Jon Haidt's books, he has done some interesting work in that field.

He's one of the creators of Heterodox Academy, which works to fight institutions that stifle non-liberal viewpoints in academia. They've done a pretty good job of rating a lot of the colleges and universities on this very topic. It's interesting to see where different institutions are on this. He is an ardent opponent of safe spaces, trigger warnings, etc. I think you'd like him.

https://heterodoxacademy.org/
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I am curious. What do you mean by "Isn't a whole lot of room" ? Isn't a tenured college professor in his class room is far more independent and even powerful that the commander of a ship at sea or even a judge in the courtroom?
I just mean that most subjects don't easily lend themselves to the injection of a political POV. Math, the sciences, literature, art, business, finance, law, medicine, etc.
 

PNW Flyer

Active Member
None
This, tenured college professors can teach pretty much whatever they want. So there's plenty of "room".
Scholarly history books too often include historians revising history due to what they believe to be the case politically.
Please provide an example of a historian "revising" history because of what they believe politically.
 
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