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Weight and balance

60flyer

60flyer

Now a C-12 pilot
pilot
Contributor
I'm curious about airline weight and balance.

I was in Chicago tonight (snow storm going through), and ended up sitting in the plane at the gate for 3 hours.

One of the "issues", was the weather at the destination and alternates went down so they needed different alternates. So weight became an issue because we need to take more fuel. So a fuel truck comes over. The fuel trucks leaves...and an HOUR later....they're still trying to figure out how many passengers have to get off. I mean a guy is coming in and out of the plane saying "7 people need to get off. No, 10 people need to get off. No...the people that got off were enough. No, we need 4 more volunteers". Oh my god....is this seriously how the airlines are run?

I don't get it. Who does the weight and balance? Wouldn't it be lbs of fuel added = lbs of people that must get off? I was astonished this was all taking place. Now, I have a tendency to think 90% of people are idiots....but I hope pilots don't fall into that category and I hope there is a logical explanation that I'm just not aware of... some other factor. So can someone explain what happened with this? Why so long? Why the confusion?
 
C420sailor

C420sailor

Former Rhino Bro
pilot
60flyer said:
I'm curious about airline weight and balance.

I don't get it. Who does the weight and balance?
Click to expand...

Depends on the airline. My mom used to work for US Airways. Before they went to a centralized operations system, each station did its own weight and balance. My mom would sit in the tower and do the balance sheets based upon the pax, baggage loading, fuel, etc., which would then get forwarded to the flight crew for final review. She told me that prior to things getting centralized, it was very easy for the flight crew and operations to coordinate and alter the aircraft loading. Once things were centralized to hub-based operations ($$$), it became a little bit more complicated.
 
rrpilot

rrpilot

Member
60flyer said:
I mean a guy is coming in and out of the plane saying "7 people need to get off. No, 10 people need to get off. No...the people that got off were enough. No, we need 4 more volunteers". Oh my god....is this seriously how the airlines are run?
Click to expand...

I guess us GA guys aren't the only ones who get rusty on W&B..:icon_tong

I don't get it. Who does the weight and balance? Wouldn't it be lbs of fuel added = lbs of people that must get off?
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Some airline pilots on here will probably chime in but I believe for these larger planes the calculations are a little more complex with CG shift issues as the plane burns off fuel...maybe that was the source of confusion...programs for PDA's and such have been available for some time, I'm surprised alot of these pilots don't use them, example below:

http://eflite.com/software/seo.php?keys=Boeing 737-700C Series&cid=5&mid=67&model=954&pax=0
 
picklesuit

picklesuit

Dirty Hinge
pilot
Contributor
For those of us who carry more than 10 SOB or 6000 pounds of gas Weight and Balance gets a little trickier, depending on what tanks, and where pax are placed. In the mighty Orion we have a specified order we fill seats to keep CG within limits (we get aft CG pretty easily in our bird)

Oh, and by "we" I mean the FE...
 
LazersGoPEWPEW

LazersGoPEWPEW

4500rpm
Contributor
60flyer said:
I'm curious about airline weight and balance.

I was in Chicago tonight (snow storm going through), and ended up sitting in the plane at the gate for 3 hours.

One of the "issues", was the weather at the destination and alternates went down so they needed different alternates. So weight became an issue because we need to take more fuel. So a fuel truck comes over. The fuel trucks leaves...and an HOUR later....they're still trying to figure out how many passengers have to get off. I mean a guy is coming in and out of the plane saying "7 people need to get off. No, 10 people need to get off. No...the people that got off were enough. No, we need 4 more volunteers". Oh my god....is this seriously how the airlines are run?

I don't get it. Who does the weight and balance? Wouldn't it be lbs of fuel added = lbs of people that must get off? I was astonished this was all taking place. Now, I have a tendency to think 90% of people are idiots....but I hope pilots don't fall into that category and I hope there is a logical explanation that I'm just not aware of... some other factor. So can someone explain what happened with this? Why so long? Why the confusion?
Click to expand...

If you'll allow me to explain. I used to do weight and balance when I worked gate.

The airline I worked at had a computerized system for weight and balance. You inputed baggage, pax, fuel, winds and it spit out how good you were on weight and balance. So initially if I came aboard one day and said I needed to take 2 people off (because I have to ask for volunteers first) and no one volunteers then I have to go back find out who I am involuntarily removing from the aircraft.

During the time I've asked for those 2 to come off the numbers might have changed at the destination or where I am and then maybe I need more people to take off. So I have to go back and ask for volunteers again.

The main thing that makes it yo-yo is the change in winds. Also if we took someone off and they decide they aren't going, we had to go and fish for their baggage as well. New bag count, new numbers. It's not a take this many pounds off put this many pounds on game. It's a whatever the computer tells us we have to do or else we cannot send the numbers to the Captain on board and the plane will not leave.

I'd say the biggest delay to the whole process is people not volunteering. So most airlines offer incentives if you volunteer. You'll always get more if you volunteer.

It's really bad when people don't volunteer and the flight is delayed and people are sure to miss their connections. That normally happens at the end of the day at an out station. I've done manual weight and balance once and I never want to do it again.
 
60flyer

60flyer

Now a C-12 pilot
pilot
Contributor
Ken_gone_flying said:
I figured this may be applicable in the weight and balance thread. Sorry, I just read it and its so disgusting I couldn't help it. This will be my one off topic post for 2010. (that doesn't include threadjacks).

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/1027360/woman-aims-to-become-worlds-fattest
Click to expand...

That's grounds for execution. God...talk about disgusting. If your one goal in life is to be fat....do we really need the drain on society she'll eventually cause when she's housebound and on disability???
 
Catmando

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Short W&B sea story -

Having everyone boarded on an A-320, we learned from the W&B sheet that we would be overweight (because of a route change for WX and extra gas). Not wanting to bump paying pax on the last flight of the night, I asked our loadmaster to see what he could do.

There must have been a shift change, because a different loadmaster appeared. His sheet showed an additional late arriving 20 pax, but with a TO gross weight of even less than before... and now within limits.

"How in the hell can that be!" I asked. "How can we add 20 pax while reducing our gross weight?" (Me, suspecting some pencil whipping.)


His response was classic! "Sir, we moved a hundred bags from the forward cargo compartment, to the rear cargo compartment, so you now weigh less."

I informed operations we were not leaving the gate until someone explained how we decreased our weight by adding 20 more pax.

With the shift change, it took awhile. But I finally learned that the 20 additional pax were middle school girls in town for a field hockey tournament. And that about 40 pax already boarded were a similar, lightweight hockey girls. So when they redid the W & B, they used actual weights of these kids who maybe weighed 75 lbs. dripping wet, rather than the 170 or so average used for W & B.

But the guy who did some fine detailed work for our pax and me had left with the shift change, and the word didn't get passed.

It would have been nice to know this at the outset. And the other guy who thought you could "reduce gross weight by moving bags aft" had a short airline career.
 
Angels

Angels

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Ken_gone_flying said:
I figured this may be applicable in the weight and balance thread. Sorry, I just read it and its so disgusting I couldn't help it. This will be my one off topic post for 2010. (that doesn't include threadjacks).

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/1027360/woman-aims-to-become-worlds-fattest
Click to expand...
Despicable. I have no idea what the grounds are for child protective services to have to step in but I think this should most definitely count. I'm going to take a giant leap here and say that there is no way her daughter could be at a healthy weight. She probably looks like the Michelin man.
 
nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Please don't ruin an interesting thread with a Jerry Springer-esque threadjack. This isn't Fark.
 
jollygreen07

jollygreen07

Professional (?) Flight Instructor
pilot
Contributor
nittany03 said:
Please don't ruin an interesting thread with a Jerry Springer-esque threadjack. This isn't Fark.
Click to expand...

Pff... whatever.. you think she's hot and you don't like people making fun of her...

Just kidding! Or not, whatever you are into man...
 
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