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Weather

taxi1 said:
The barometer at the center of the hurricane right now is 26.92", so the pressure at sea level in the eye is equivalent to the pressure at 3000' on a typical 29.92" day (about a 1000' up per inch of mercury).

To put it another way, if a plane penetrated at a constant 2900' on an altimeter set at 29.92", it'd fly into the water.

EDIT: this led me to wonder if we've lost Hurricane Hunters before. We have.

This incident is a hair raising story. Not a hurricane, didn't lose the airplane (NOAA P-3) but damn close flying in a storm at night off of Newfoundland. Single engine in a P-3 at low altitude in a storm.


The aircraft was flying at 3000 feet, 210 knots with approximately 1700-1800 SHP set on each engine. Moments later, aft crew members’ attention was drawn by flashes of light outside the starboard windows and they observed flames coming from the #3 engine tailpipe accompanied by audible “popping.” Crew members immediately notified the flight station by declaring “fire on #3, flames, flames, flames” over the ICS...

The AC advanced power slightly on engines 1, 2, and 4 to approximately 2500 SHP. The CP began to read the emergency shutdown checklist but had not completed it when the aft crew members observed flames coming from the tailpipe of the #4 engine and announced ”fire on #4”...

Approximately 3 to 5 minutes after stabilization from the shutdown of the #4 engine, the aft crew observed flames from the tailpipe of the #1 engine and announced to the flight station, “fire on #1.” ...Watching the engine RPM drop below 70% and believing he heard a direction to shut down #1, the FE pulled the Emergency shutdown handle for the #1 engine.
Click to expand...

I've read about another too. Written from the perspective of one of the scientist crew members aboard, who ultimately hung up their flight boots immediately after they safely landed, and then went on to have a whole other career at NOAA. Interestingly, reading the NHC discussion text earlier today, it mentioned that the NOAA bird did an early RTB after encountering "severe turbulence in the SW" quadrant of the storm. I wonder if this is a euphemism for a similarly scary day out there for those folks. Don't think I've seen similar verbiage in any other such report, in spite of the verbiage being very dry and non-descriptive. Of note, the story I mention was during the workup for Hurricane Andrew IIRC, a pretty uniquely similar strong storm. They lost an engine, had another at max EGT, and couldn't climb above 7000' MSL or so. The AF hunter Herk managed to find them the path of least resistance, which they used to escape the eye before they ran out of fuel. The whole inside of the plane was trashed with all their gear being flung around.
 
Thing is strengthening right up until landfall, which is ongoing. From the NHC site: the storm is insanely strong, equivalent to a top tier tornado. But bigger, and it sits on you for 10 hours.

...CATASTROPHIC WINDS MOVING ONSHORE SOUTHERN JAMAICA...
...LAST CHANCE TO PROTECT YOUR LIFE...
...1000 AM EDT POSITION UPDATE...

THIS IS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND LIFE-THREATENING SITUATION! TAKE
COVER NOW! Failure to adequately shelter may result in serious
injury, and loss of life. Residents in Jamaica that experience the
eye should not leave their shelter as winds will rapidly increase
within the backside of the eyewall of Melissa.

To protect yourself from wind, the best thing you can do is put as
many walls as possible between you and the outside. An interior room
without windows, ideally one where you can also avoid falling trees,
is the safest place you can be in a building. You can cover yourself
with a mattress and wear a helmet for added protection.

NOAA Hurricane Hunter Aircraft find that Melissa continues to
strengthen with maximum sustained winds of 185 mph (295 km/h).The
minimum central pressure has fallen to 892 mb (26.34 inches) based
on NOAA and Hurricane Hunter Air Force Reserve aircraft data.

*****

tornado scale.

EF4166–200 mphCan level well-built homes, sweep away even well-anchored homes, and can cause significant damage to large structures
 
taxi1 said:
The barometer at the center of the hurricane right now is 26.92", so the pressure at sea level in the eye is equivalent to the pressure at 3000' on a typical 29.92" day (about a 1000' up per inch of mercury).

To put it another way, if a plane penetrated at a constant 2900' on an altimeter set at 29.92", it'd fly into the water.

EDIT: this led me to wonder if we've lost Hurricane Hunters before. We have.

This incident is a hair raising story. Not a hurricane, didn't lose the airplane (NOAA P-3) but damn close flying in a storm at night off of Newfoundland. Single engine in a P-3 at low altitude in a storm.


The aircraft was flying at 3000 feet, 210 knots with approximately 1700-1800 SHP set on each engine. Moments later, aft crew members’ attention was drawn by flashes of light outside the starboard windows and they observed flames coming from the #3 engine tailpipe accompanied by audible “popping.” Crew members immediately notified the flight station by declaring “fire on #3, flames, flames, flames” over the ICS...

The AC advanced power slightly on engines 1, 2, and 4 to approximately 2500 SHP. The CP began to read the emergency shutdown checklist but had not completed it when the aft crew members observed flames coming from the tailpipe of the #4 engine and announced ”fire on #4”...

Approximately 3 to 5 minutes after stabilization from the shutdown of the #4 engine, the aft crew observed flames from the tailpipe of the #1 engine and announced to the flight station, “fire on #1.” ...Watching the engine RPM drop below 70% and believing he heard a direction to shut down #1, the FE pulled the Emergency shutdown handle for the #1 engine.
Click to expand...
I've heard some broad strokes from this event in the past as part of the horror stories about P-3s that came up in the squadron, but never happened upon the report.

Great read, thanks for sharing!
 
Swanee said:
I wonder if an East Coast MEU is gearing up for HADR ops.

The people of Jamaica are going to need some immediate help over the coming days and weeks.
Click to expand...
If they are, it will be less effective now that USAID has been defunded. Maybe Red Cross will be there? Maybe?
 
GroundPounder said:
Have worked 3 natural disasters, 1 large and 2 mediums, and the Red Cross is not helpful until about 10 days in to an event. At the beginning, they consume more resources than they deliver. Hopefully they are better OCONUS.
Click to expand...

Who makes the biggest difference in the beginning?
 
sevenhelmet said:
Who makes the biggest difference in the beginning?
Click to expand...
In my experience, and I'm willing to conceed it might be different in other parts of US, it has been Salvation Army. They deliver the most, the quickest.

When things are stabilized, by far the best group is Samaritan's Purse. They come 100% self sufficient, take no resources from the locals and flat out get things done.

I feel for those folks in Jamaica, my experiences have been no power, and widespread damage. Widespread destruction is a whole different ballgame.
 
GroundPounder said:
In my experience, and I'm willing to conceed it might be different in other parts of US, it has been Salvation Army. They deliver the most, the quickest.

When things are stabilized, by far the best group is Samaritan's Purse. They come 100% self sufficient, take no resources from the locals and flat out get things done.

I feel for those folks in Jamaica, my experiences have been no power, and widespread damage. Widespread destruction is a whole different ballgame.
Click to expand...
I’ve done a few more than @GroundPounder but not many. Still he is spot on, the Salvation Army has the gear and people to react fast. I did a hurricane recovery while in the Marines and their greatest “gift” is heavy lift helicopters - getting stuff where it was needed. Grunts like me just handed out rations or kept people from getting ugly at water points. At state level the army guard is excellent and can get power up while getting people out.
 
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